Conventional boiler.... comeback Combi all is forgiven!
- Thread starter jdillon
- Start date
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I always knew you had a dry wit T For the aid of the Googleer though he should direct his searching towards low loss headers.
BUT then with his keen knowledge of the products he is waffling on about, he would know that the primary heat exchanger of the q51c takes all the capacity of the boiler's pump requiring the added cost and expense of another pump and a dirty great header under the boiler.
I mention it AGAIN because Water Systems seems to have forgotten it. Perhaps his medication has worn off?
But hey... a grossly oversized combi is perfect for the job is it not Dr D|ckhead?
T
TellMeWhy
An intelligent man will assess properly, cost up as use the cheapest and easiest route meeting the customers needs.
I'm rather good at fixing these awesome boilers, wouldn't it be great if they could make a appliance that just worked, but then that wouldn't be much fun would it? And I'd be out of a job
Hence why the likes of you give customers a poor deal.
T
TellMeWhy
Which is irrelevant to a large combi vs a system boiler/external controls/unvented cylinder. A wandering mind.
A large ATAG does not require low loss headers as standard. You knowledge of heating system is scant.
Keep the insults coming, I love it. Insults are when you have lost. And boy you lots are big losers.
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Morning Drivel.
Are you going to address the questions asked or are we going to get 2 more pages of irrelevant repetitive waffle?
Come along now.
Are you going to address the questions asked or are we going to get 2 more pages of irrelevant repetitive waffle?
Come along now.
Perhaps you should Google page 10 of the manual.?
While you're there. ... page 35.
Of course I already knew that stuff. I know my products.
While you're there. ... page 35.
Of course I already knew that stuff. I know my products.
T
TellMeWhy
Morning Dr Duh!. It is NOT mandatory to fit a low loss header on a large ATAG. If it was it would be supplied with the unit. Only when zoning is it recommended.
And you still do not need an unvented cylinder when using a large ATAG.
And you still do not need an unvented cylinder when using a large ATAG.
So page 10 was a bit confusing for you?
How is the heating going to work.
ATAG do supply the header. But it is extra. Because. ....now this might shock you.... installers often make them up on site.
Keep taking the tablets old bean.
How is the heating going to work.
ATAG do supply the header. But it is extra. Because. ....now this might shock you.... installers often make them up on site.
Keep taking the tablets old bean.
No, an idiot costs up the cheapest method.
An intelligent person will cost up the most cost effective way, and best set of compromises, to meet the customers requirements. Most cost effective does not equal cheapest. And AFAIK there are few, if any, situations where there isn't some compromise involved.
On compromise, in an ideal world, a combi (for example) would heat up from cold and provide DHW the instant a hot tap is turned on. It would provide DHW of adequate temperature at whatever flow rate the customer wanted. And it would range down to arbitrarily low outputs (perhaps only a few hundred watts), at arbitrarily low flow rates, so as to be able to match the requirements for the CH system. And for good measure, it would be 100% reliable.
In the real world, such a combi doesn't exist - so we have to make compromises. We can compromise on start up times - and wait for hot water at the tap. We can compromise on flow rates. We can compromise on space and fit a cylinder to store heat - thus bridging the gap between boiler capacity and instantaneous DHW draw off requirements. We can compromise on DHW pressure for the low cost and simplicity of an open vented DHW cylinder. We can compromise on cost and simplicity to get mains pressure hot water with an unvented cylinder. We can compromise on cost, and the "complexity" of a second pump, with a thermal store to get mains pressure hot water and a well balanced CH system. We can compromise on ease of installation to gain other features. And so the list goes on and on and on.
There is no prefect system. In most cases there is no "correct" system. In most cases there will be several systems which will all do the job. It's a matter of choosing which set of compromises best suits what the customer requires. In a few cases it may be coincidental that the lowest cost option also happens to be the best compromise.
What I can be fairly sure of, if the selection is based on "cheapest" and "easiest to install" then it is more likely to not be the optimum choice than it is to be the optimum. It would be the idiots choice. Funnily enough, combi boilers seem to meet the criteria of "cheapest" and "easiest to install" - such a coincidence that so many people seem to rule out any other option
D
Dean744PiN5
Love it! It's gotta be a wind up! if he wasn't dead godbless his soul, I would be expecting to see Jeremy Beadle come round the corner
yes it does. regards, atag service agent.
T
TellMeWhyy
They are nearly there though. The lowest output of a large ATAG is approx. 8 kilowatt, which is meant for a large house and would not cycle much as the lowest heat demand for such a house would not be 0.5killowat. By the time such cycling starts the house temp sensors would kick in a cut out the burner. You could have a boiler that goes from 0.9 kw to 10kw and then add a 40kw boiler with both staged and both feeding a plate heat exchanger fro DHW, if you want to go right down to near zero output.
The point is a large output quality combi vs. a system boiler/external controls/unvented cylinder. The combi wins hands down.
T
TellMeWhyy
Wrong. A single zone does not need a header. All this is trivial and beside the point of The point of a large output quality combi vs. a system boiler/external controls/unvented cylinder. The combi wins hands down.
yes of course im wrong I only work with them every day ffs and know them inside out. What a complete tool you are.
Im not getting involved in an argument just providing some FACTS.
zoning is irrelevant, its about resistance in the circuit. After the heat exchanger there is no available head for anything else from the standard pump. Yes I guess you could just add another pump in series if you wanted too, but ATAG recommendation is to use a header, without it you will get a very flakey warranty.
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