cooker and hob installation help

[securespark]

(provided they're within 2M of each other).

Where does it mention 2m?

 

[PrinceofDarkness]

Securespark: It's accepted practice in this industry that a common isolator can be used for two separate cooking appliances in the same room, provided that both appliances are within 2M of the common isolator.

If you don't know where to find this "rule", it's not up to me to educate you.

Lucia.

 

[ColJack]

Coljack: do you intend to pick me up on some trivial point every time I post here?

I'm only following your lead.. was it not you who pointed out in another thread that no one had mentioned coloured tape besides me?
and yes, yes I do.. it's what we do here, try and make ourselves look smarter by pointing out the faults that others make.. haven't you noticed that theme yet?

I'm quite aware that no one has mentioned separate isolators, apart from myself. The point of my post was to assure the O/P that his standard circuit is adequate to supply both appliances and that they can share a common isolator (provided they're within 2M of each other).

I was going to comment here but i see that you've already corrected yourself in a later post.. ( within 2M of the isolator, not each other.. )

I'm not interested in the petty side-issue of plugging-in ovens to a socket circuit.

that part of my reply wasn't aimed at you, it was aimed at holmslaw, your post showed up at some point between me reading the thread and replying, I only saw it in the Topic review window under the reply section while typing, hence why the reply that was aimed at you was later and started with your name.

That isn't the main issue here. The O/P simply wants to know whether he can use his existing supply without 'upgrading' it.

and one which I addressed by providing information on a means to connect said appliances to one supply safely.

Perhaps you should read the whole thread?

Lucia.

I do read all of a thread before replying, which is why there is sometimes some cross over between answers as evidenced above. I do however suffer from mild dyslexia and on some of the more verbose posts I do occasionally get muddled up and misinterpret some things.

 

[PrinceofDarkness]

The fact remains the this thread belongs to the the originator of it.....

So will you join me in assuring the O/P that his existing 30A/6mm supply is adequate for his new load?


Lucia.

 

[securespark]

Securespark: It's accepted practice in this industry that a common isolator can be used for two separate cooking appliances in the same room, provided that both appliances are within 2M of the common isolator.

If you don't know where to find this "rule", it's not up to me to educate you.

Lucia.

It looks like it's up to me to educate you, then.

It is no longer accepted practice in this industry

This "rule" of which you so confidently speak no longer appears in the current regs. Nor the regs before those.

In fact, they last appeared in the 15th Edition, 476-20, to be precise.

In the 16th, 476-03-04 replaced it. There is no mention of distances. The only stipulation is that the appliances are in the same room.

In the 17th, it was replaced again by 537.5.1.3.

This time, not only are no distances mentioned, but the appliances need not even be in the same room.

The relevent part of the regulation simply states:

"A single...switching device may control two or more items of equipment intended to operate simultaneously."

I find this very amusing because you have several times countered electrician's references to regulations by implying that they need not be so strict.

In this case, you are needlessly advocating adhering to a "rule" which last featured in the good book in 1991 and which has susequently been relaxed.

No doubt you still insist on supplementary in kitchens.

it's what we do here, try and make ourselves look smarter by pointing out the faults that others make.. haven't you noticed that theme yet?

 

[PrinceofDarkness]

SS: I didn't say that the 2M 'rule' was a 'Regulation', I said that it was an 'accepted practice'. It remains an accepted practice, since it appears at the foot of page 160 of the current 17th Edition OSG:

"..... one switch may be used to control both appliances provided that neither appliance is more than 2 m from the switch".

That's what it says, and most people take it as an 'accepted practice' - apart from you, it seems......


Lucia.

 

[securespark]

The OSG is a guide to regs, not always a strict interpretation of them. I too will fit switches within 2m where practicable, but my point to you (and others) is that you may go out of your way in terms of expense to put a switch within 2m when it is not necessary.

It is one of those cases where I feel the OSG is getting ahead of itself by suggesting a method of compliance that is not only stricter than the regs suggest, but a throwback to regs of old. After all, prior to the 15th, the regulation appeared in the 14th (and before that, no doubt).

 

[PrinceofDarkness]

That's not a very gracious retraction of your previous lengthy post, SS. But it will have to do if you can't do better.......

I repeat two points: 1) - I didn't mention the actual Regulations, I merely stated the accepted practice as mentioned in the current IEE guidance, and, 2) - This thread belongs to the O/P, so why can't you advise him on his specific question instead of picking on someone else?


I don't need lessons on the Regs, thank you. I've been observing them since the 13th Edition.


Lucia.

 

[securespark]

I don't need lessons on the Regs, thank you. I've been observing them since the 13th Edition.

Obviously not that closely, as you did not know that the regulations had changed.

You may think it is "accepted practice", but it is not any more. There are many sparks who know nothing of the 2m "rule" because it was never in the regulations they learned from.

Just because something has been done a certain way for many years, does not mean it should continue to be done that way.

Look at supplementary in kitchens. I see at least 5 installs a week that have been done since 1992 that have supplementary linking the H&C pipes and the kitchen sink.

It's all very well hanging on to obsolete practices if you must, but you need to keep up with the latest changes and be able to know that maybe sometimes you don't have to do it the "old" way just because you always have.

And I never intended a gracious retraction.

Anyway, as you say. Let the OP be reassured.

 

[PrinceofDarkness]

For goodness' sake man! I've just told you that that 'accepted practice' is as stated in the latest edition of the 17th Edition OSG. Page 160. How much more up to date to I have to be!

Why can't you address the O/P's question, instead of bullying me with your nonsense?


Lucia

 

[ColJack]

we have done..
the OP has been told by several people that it will be ok on the existing supply and I've even provided 2 methods of connecting both appliances to the same supply safely.

 

[securespark]

For goodness' sake man!

The OSG is a guide only, it does not form part of BS7671:2008.

You can be a sheep and follow the OSG, or you can break free from those chains & interpret the regs!

Read the beginning of the appendix under which what you quote appears:

"Circuit arrangements other than those detailed in this appendix are not precluded when specified by a competent person, in accordance with the general requirements of Regulation 314.3."

In other words, you don't have to do it the way we suggest here!!

To be guided by the OSG alone and not to consider the wider body of the regulations themselves I think is quite short-sighted, especially when (as I said before) the OSG is inexplicably promoting a long-dead regulation as a method of compliance with current regulations.

The reality is that you are free to place the switch where you like!

 

[PrinceofDarkness]

Coljack: I asked that question of securespark. Why did you feel the need to respond by using "We".

Are you the official spokesman for securespark - or do you simply like to repeat the blooming obvious?


Lucia.

 

[securespark]

Col said "We" because (if you missed it) both myself and others have reassured the OP that a 6mm²/30 or 32A circuit is acceptable.

In fact, I did that even before you said,

Why can't you address the O/P's question, instead of bullying me with your nonsense?"

Talking of which, you obviously don't like your own medecine.

You are quick to dish out your own disagreements with others posting here, but when I do the same with you, you are equally quick to label it "bullying".

 

[PrinceofDarkness]

You haven't addressed the O/P at any stage of this thread. You only appeared here on page two, simply to pick an argument.


Lucia.