Corner Utility Room Shelf - Battens or Brackets?

[ringzer]

Hi,

I'm planning on installing 24mm thick X 800mm long X 300mm deep shelves in my utility room (https://www.ikea.com/gb/en/p/tranhult-shelf-white-stained-aspen-60454899/) and have some questions about fixing.

The long and short wall for the left shelves (1) are newly installed plasterboard with the right side (2) where as on the right side the short end is newly installed plasterboard with the long end plasterboard on top of external brick wall (1920s) house so dot and dab I think. I'm also planning on putting a long shelf above the door frame (3)

See the attached photo of the room and proposed plan.

Originally I was going to put an L-shaped shelf on the wall, but given that the shelf is 300mm deep, the short end of the L would only be about 450mm so not a huge increase in shelf space but quite a bit more work.

We're planning on putting some small appliances spice jars, some books, so lets say it should be capable of a 20kg load and we'd keep the weight towards the back and corner of the shelf.

I would prefer to install on battens as brackets are a bit unsightly. A carpenter came around to quote was planning on putting on battens so I think that should be fine.

My questions are:

1. Are battens running along the long and short edge fixed to the wall sufficient to hold this up? For the long shelf above the door way battens will be best as I can do them in a "U" shape against the side wall, almost like an alcove. Besides I can't install brackets where the door frame is.

2. Which would be stronger? Battens or brackets: https://www.screwfix.com/p/hi-load-bracket-147kg-white-200-x-200mm-10-pack/30268

3. When fixing the battens, I know where the joists are, so is it better to screw into the timber studs or use plasterboard fixing, something like https://www.gripitfixings.co.uk/

4. If screwing into the joists, what size screws should I use? Given I'm screwing into timber I assume I don't need any plugs.

5. What size battens should I use? 18mm X 44mm?
https://www.wickes.co.uk/Wickes-Whitewood-PSE-Timber---18mm-x-44mm-x-1-8m/p/9000036442

6. If I wanted to do an L shaped shelf, would I need to cut the shelf at a 45 degree angle and glue together? Anything else I need to consider?

7. For fixing to the right wall with plasterboard and brick behind, what fixings should I use? 50mm screw with plug having drilled the hole first?


Sketch:

PB = Plasterboard
Hatched boxes are vertical studs
Updated Sketch = original L shaped design.

Thanks,

Ciaran

 

[Deleted member 174758]

1. Are battens running along the long and short edge fixed to the wall sufficient to hold this up? For the long shelf above the door way battens will be best as I can do them in a "U" shape against the side wall, almost like an alcove. Besides I can't install brackets where the door frame is.

Personally I'd want two battens and single end brackets on those L-shaped shelves. Otherwise to risk them being overloaded and failing (if it is anything like our kitchen!)

2. Which would be stronger? Battens or brackets: https://www.screwfix.com/p/hi-load-bracket-147kg-white-200-x-200mm-10-pack/30268

I don't really see it that way. TBH a couple of Spur wall rails (which spread the load over a greater area of the wall) are a lot stronger - which is why they use them in shops. They do look a bit industrial to some people, though. Nott saying do this - just suggesting an alternative

3. When fixing the battens, I know where the joists are, so is it better to screw into the timber studs or use plasterboard fixing, something like https://www.gripitfixings.co.uk/

Plasterboard fixings will never carry the same weight as screws into studs, even screws into metal studs. That said I put ups Spur rails in my study/office which are 6ft long and on 400mm centres - they carry part of my tool kit, plus books, etc so over a 7ft length of wall there must be 300kg plus hung on the wall. Half the fixings into the PB (12.5mm thick) are the "umbrella" type (Rawlplug SN Interset, Fischer, etc), set with the correct setting tool. Used them for years in shopfitting and never had issues, unlike almost every other fixing I tried

4. If screwing into the joists, what size screws should I use? Given I'm screwing into timber I assume I don't need any plugs.

You go straight in, no plugs, Use the largest diameter screw you can get through the holes in the brackets (4.5 or 4.0mm diameter) and use 60 to 70mm screws - you have to go through the thickness of the bracket, plus 12mm PB before you reach the timber

5. What size battens should I use? 18mm X 44mm?

Yes, ex-2 x 1in PSE will do fine

6. If I wanted to do an L shaped shelf, would I need to cut the shelf at a 45 degree angle and glue together? Anything else I need to consider?

You could do, but TBH you are best off just butting the two shelves together (with maybe a slight adjustment the to cut end to get a tight fit). I tend to stick a couple of dowels or biscuits into shelf joints like those, but a couple of steel repair plates screwed across the joint on the underside work as well. In all probability the wall corner won't be 90°...

7. For fixing to the right wall with plasterboard and brick behind, what fixings should I use? 50mm screw with plug having drilled the hole first?

Brown plugs, 7mm hole, 5.0 (or maybe 4.5) x 70mm screws

 

[big-all]

general comments

think outside the box use the brackets on the top and hang the shelve off the bracket it will be far less able to be loaded up but look a bit less industrial
also keep in mind any socket'switch or wall connected device you must assume the electrical wires travel in any vertical or horizontal direction in the form off a cross until you know otherwise ??

 

[foxhole]

Spur type uprights would be my choice , also allows for reconfiguring easily .

 

[ringzer]

Personally I'd want two battens and single end brackets on those L-shaped shelves. Otherwise to risk them being overloaded and failing (if it is anything like our kitchen!)


I don't really see it that way. TBH a couple of Spur wall rails (which spread the load over a greater area of the wall) are a lot stronger - which is why they use them in shops. They do look a bit industrial to some people, though. Nott saying do this - just suggesting an alternative


Plasterboard fixings will never carry the same weight as screws into studs, even screws into metal studs. That said I put ups Spur rails in my study/office which are 6ft long and on 400mm centres - they carry part of my tool kit, plus books, etc so over a 7ft length of wall there must be 300kg plus hung on the wall. Half the fixings into the PB (12.5mm thick) are the "umbrella" type (Rawlplug SN Interset, Fischer, etc), set with the correct setting tool. Used them for years in shopfitting and never had issues, unlike almost every other fixing I tried

View attachment 255896


You go straight in, no plugs, Use the largest diameter screw you can get through the holes in the brackets (4.5 or 4.0mm diameter) and use 60 to 70mm screws - you have to go through the thickness of the bracket, plus 12mm PB before you reach the timber


Yes, ex-2 x 1in PSE will do fine


You could do, but TBH you are best off just butting the two shelves together (with maybe a slight adjustment the to cut end to get a tight fit). I tend to stick a couple of dowels or biscuits into shelf joints like those, but a couple of steel repair plates screwed across the joint on the underside work as well. In all probability the wall corner won't be 90°...


Brown plugs, 7mm hole, 5.0 (or maybe 4.5) x 70mm screws

Thanks fo ryour detailed response. I need to find the time to work on it, but will hopefully do over the next few weeks. If I have any specific follow ups I'll let you know.

general comments

think outside the box use the brackets on the top and hang the shelve off the bracket it will be far less able to be loaded up but look a bit less industrial
also keep in mind any socket'switch or wall connected device you must assume the electrical wires travel in any vertical or horizontal direction in the form off a cross until you know otherwise ??

I think I'll go with the battens and a single L shaped bracket underneath at each end.

I've bought a Bosch wire detector so will make sure to check before hand.

Spur type uprights would be my choice , also allows for reconfiguring easily .

Ya, I had found an option form Ikea in Bamboo which looked nice a while back but they've discontinued it.

 

[conny]

Thanks fo ryour detailed response. I need to find the time to work on it, but will hopefully do over the next few weeks. If I have any specific follow ups I'll let you know.



I think I'll go with the battens and a single L shaped bracket underneath at each end.

I've bought a Bosch wire detector so will make sure to check before hand.



Ya, I had found an option form Ikea in Bamboo which looked nice a while back but they've discontinued it.

I found I was getting false readings when I first used my Bosch detector. Tried it 'one handed' on a piece of plasterboard and it detected 'a metallic' presence. The P/B was resting on a wooden table top 1 1/2" thick! Placed my other hand on the plasterboard and got a clear reading.
So, the lesson is, whilst moving the detector over the wall with one hand make sure your other hand is also touching the wall to avoid false positives.