Curved stone staircase, runner or paint

[Kaymo]

In the images that you posted, the runners are the same width as they go down the staircase (other than the windings).

It might look like that, but they are not. If you think about, in order for a stair to turn the treads need to be narrower on the inside. This results in the need for a diagonal cut at the start of the next riser, which would obviously be wider. You then need a diagonal cut at the next riser.

I can understand that the carpet fitters don't want to glue down the gripper rods and come back the following day, but can't you ask them to spec them and glue them yourself?

They don't need to come back the next day for this, they need to cut the carpet to the correct size then take it away to bind the edges. Apparently this is done with a machine back in the shop and some of the fitters I spoke to didn't have this. I think it could be done with an actual pre-stitched runner in one go, but the only place I can get that have any interest in the job don't sell runners, they do it with carpet and bind the edges.

 

[Kaymo]

Thoughts? Yes, just how flat are the current treads? i.e. are they worn? lf they are anything other than dead flat you'll need to address that before attempting instalation.

Not perfectly flat, but a lot flatter than the 200 year old upstairs floor that I have just laid it over. I had presumed that the floor adhesive is a little like tile adhesive and would take out the slight unevenness, but I have never used it before so I could be way off here.

This may require shuttering or overcladding with plywood, mechanically fixed. If the going is uneven plywoood overcladding combined with correcting the discrepancies in the going is really the only way to sort things out

If I had to do all of that then its not going to work, because it would raise the height, the nosing would end up to high etc.

Secondly, I don't think that glueing alone will be particularly safe on a staircase, in part because timber products tend to move which can lead to them detaching from a stone substrate over time.

This is the sort of thing I was concerned about. The fact that it is in my own house and I expect to leave this house in a box (hopefully not due to falling down the stairs due to a loose board) means that I would at least be here to inspect it, but if the glue is likely to detach over time, then its maybe not a risk worth taking.

Lots of good advice and stuff to think about, thanks for this.

 

[Kaymo]

Reading the thread i saw you mention doing the upstairs floor and wondered if using wood on the stairs could be an option and now you've thought of it and shown how it could look, i'd say you're on to a winner with that idea...but it isn't my opinion that really counts, is it?
What does your wife say?

It wasn't so much opinions about how it looks that I was looking for, more for advice/thoughts on the technicalities of fitting it/safety etc. Obviously my wife likes the idea and how it would look or I wouldn't have got as far as considering taking on all this extra work.

Her opinion counts, but only so far. If I decide the amount of work isn't going to be worth it, or it wont be safe, then it wont be happening. Do I sound brave when she can't see what I am writing?

 

[Deleted member 174758]

Haviing mulled this over a bit more the one adhesive I have used which might be up to the task is something I'vevused for parquet flooring repairs, i.e. Lecol 5500 parquet adhesive. This is formulated for installation, reinstallation or repair of wooden parquet flooring onto a hard substratecsuch as shone or concrete. Traditional parquet was invariably laid on a bed of hot bitumen atop in cement or stone (never timber) and when reinstalling or repairing historic floor you are always dealing with a contaminated substrate, so the 5500 doesn't require a perfectly clean floor to lay onto. It also contains an amount of filler which gives it some body, so it might be up to dealing with 10 to 15mm of floor height variation (although I'd check with the distributor first). Maybe worth a phone call to their technical department?

A couple of points about it: it is pretty expensive stuff (not too hard to stomach if you are reinstalling a £30k historic parquet floor, but for laminate?) and it is very niffy, partly because it is alcohol-based, but either way you need to mask up when using it in confined spaces and you absolutely must use forced ventilation when installing with it (a big fan next to an open window as a minimum, but a proper industrial extractor with a large diameter hose is very adbisable, far superior to a domestic fan and can be hired)

 

[Kaymo]

Thanks for this. Will check it out.

I had originally been looking at Bostik Laybond, and this sounds similar, and is a similar price. I wouldn't need to take out anywhere near 10-15mm variation, the steps are much flatter than that, maybe a few mm variation at most.

Its not actually laminate, its engineered wood (which I suppose is 'laminated' wood if that's what you meant), with a reasonably thick top layer of oak so I expect it to last a reasonalbly long time - though obviously not as long as historic parquet!

Given that I already have the wood, the cost of the bond isn't a huge concern. It will be nearly £1000 if I pay someone to fit a carpet, versus about £100 for adhesive. Its my time that would be the biggest factor as there would be a fair bit of messing cutting all of those angles.

I won't be jumping into any decision in a hurry with this one.

 

[Deleted member 174758]

Its not actually laminate, its engineered wood (which I suppose is 'laminated' wood if that's what you meant), with a reasonably thick top layer of oak so I expect it to last a reasonalbly long time - though obviously not as long as historic parquet!

Actually, a lot of so-called modern parquet comes as a pattern of "blocks" bonded onto a plywood backer, so not too dissimilar to engineered flooring. 7Personally never installed it. Just done the trad stuff, but the adhesives they use seem to smell quite similar

Given that I already have the wood, the cost of the bond isn't a huge concern. It will be nearly £1000 if I pay someone to fit a carpet, versus about £100 for adhesive

All I'll say is i think you may be surprised at how much adhesive you need.

Even with an adhesive I'd still be tempted to put some mechanical fixings (e.g. screws and plugs) into the treads, say along the back edges where they can be hidden by the risers. Belt and braces, maybe?

You biggest issue may actually be templating the treads which can be very time consuming

 

[justigator]

I have a staircase not unlike your own, but timber not stone, currently fully carpeted. I want to paint the edges and have a stair runner, but a bit of research suggests a 66-year-old DIYer, experienced but doing it for the first time, is unlikely to produce good results. This is not least because of the turns; a straight run might be a starter. So a pro job and £££ - probably many more of them down here in that London than where you are! So far so irrelevant, but if you do end up painting the whole thing, you might consider Rust-Oleum floor paint. It's billed as for wood and concrete (= stone?). I've just done some new softwood floorboarding for a landing with it (matt, chalk white) and it's looking good, though not laid and walked on yet. I chose the paint because it's water-based rather than using polyurethane; I'm sure the latter will be tougher but I couldn't stand the fumes. Sand lightly and use knotting solution as per instructions, then - in my case at least - three coats. Let us know how you get on.

 

[opps]

I have a staircase not unlike your own, but timber not stone, currently fully carpeted. I want to paint the edges and have a stair runner, but a bit of research suggests a 66-year-old DIYer, experienced but doing it for the first time, is unlikely to produce good results. This is not least because of the turns; a straight run might be a starter. So a pro job and £££ - probably many more of them down here in that London than where you are! So far so irrelevant, but if you do end up painting the whole thing, you might consider Rust-Oleum floor paint. It's billed as for wood and concrete (= stone?). I've just done some new softwood floorboarding for a landing with it (matt, chalk white) and it's looking good, though not laid and walked on yet. I chose the paint because it's water-based rather than using polyurethane; I'm sure the latter will be tougher but I couldn't stand the fumes. Sand lightly and use knotting solution as per instructions, then - in my case at least - three coats. Let us know how you get on.

In a 2 to 3 weeks, I have to paint a customer's hallway in W5, including the stair runners. I will be using a lot of 2 pack filler. Fortunately, the gap between the treads and risers seems to be pretty stable.

I have allowed 1.5 days just for the stair runner painting. I will however being oil based eggshell, it is far more durable than waterbased paint (if applied properly). I would have allowed 2.25 days were it not for the fact that I am working in a regular customer's daughter's first property. The guy has been a good customer over the years, so I am willing to work at a lower rate.

My primary concern is that the fitter will hammer down the gripper rods, that is likely to create cracks where none existed before. I wish that they would screw them down, but they won't want to spend the extra time to do that (I kinda get why).

 

[Kaymo]

I have a staircase not unlike your own, but timber not stone, currently fully carpeted. I want to paint the edges and have a stair runner, but a bit of research suggests a 66-year-old DIYer, experienced but doing it for the first time, is unlikely to produce good results. This is not least because of the turns; a straight run might be a starter. So a pro job and £££ - probably many more of them down here in that London than where you are! So far so irrelevant, but if you do end up painting the whole thing, you might consider Rust-Oleum floor paint. It's billed as for wood and concrete (= stone?). I've just done some new softwood floorboarding for a landing with it (matt, chalk white) and it's looking good, though not laid and walked on yet. I chose the paint because it's water-based rather than using polyurethane; I'm sure the latter will be tougher but I couldn't stand the fumes. Sand lightly and use knotting solution as per instructions, then - in my case at least - three coats. Let us know how you get on.

Thanks for the recommendation.

I already did the edges, as I was expecting at that time to fit a runner, although they do need another coat. To be honest, all I used was the same water based satin that I had been using for the woodwork and metal railings, partly so it would match and its what I had at hand at the time. I suspect its also similar (although possibly solvent based) trim paint that was used on the edges before. I put that down about two months ago and it doesn't seem slippy, and has been ok so far, but may not have the durability over time.

At the moment I am considering just painting the centre run white like the edges, with a bit of filler beforehand and see how it looks. That wouldn't take very long and would give it at least a temporary finish while I get all of the other things I need to do, and possibly revisit the runner/wood flooring question when I have a bit more time. Even if I cover with a runner or wood, the exposed edges of the stair need to be done in white anyway, so I can do it at the same time I am finishing that off.