Damp on home buyer survey

[danlightbulb]

Hi all.

My survey of the house I am buying has found damp in the two bay windows at the front of the house.

The surveyor has explained to me that the wooden windows on these bays are in poor condition with deteriorated cills, and that he believes water will be penetrating here, soaking into the brick and saturating it. They are solid walls.

The internal plaster is saturated and coming away from the brick. The wooden floorboards in the area are at 18% damp and the surveyor has suggested to get the boards lifted and joists checked because the joist ends may be rotten from the saturation of the brick into which they will sit.

I knew the wooden windows were not in great condition but they are not rotten so i was going to just strip back, treat and paint. This has thrown a spanner in the works now as replacing these windows wasnt in my short term plan.

What I dont know is how big of a problem this is in general, how likely it is that the joists will need replacing, and whether this causes any knock on effects for example within the brickwork?

Getting an additional survey where the floorboards are lifted will be invasive and Im not sure of the cost yet.

Does anyone have any advice on how i proceed or what the likely scale of this problem is?

 

[^woody^]

18% moisture content is normal for timber!

Is the wall actually and visibly damp - stained, mould, discoloured?

Penetrating moisture from windows is totally different from penetrating moisture horizontally from the wall or from rising upwards. You need to know what the actual problem is, not what the surveyor thinks. Has he actually discounted other potential causes?

 

[danlightbulb]

The surveyor seems very competant in general and this initial information is from a summary call I had with him yesterday following the survey on Friday. I will recieve the full written report next week.

He described to me that he had used a radar damp meter which was at the maximum reading (>999 i think he said - unsure of units of measure here), and a different type of meter for the wood which read 18.4%, and that the action threshold they work to was 18%. He said that if the floorboards are at 18% then its likely the joists would read higher because the moisture would be being absorbed from the joists into the floorboards. There was no movement in the floor though.

He described to me that the wooden window cills are in poor condition and with little fall away from the house and he thinks it likely that this is the cause, but obviously has advised I get a damp specialist to have a look at the area.

 

[big-all]

could be condensation dripping onto the floor and wall off the window cill ??

 

[danlightbulb]

I would say its coming through the brick and into the plaster from behind given how the plaster is seperating from the wall. Once i get the report Ill post the section here, it would be great to get opinions from those with more expertise than myself. The big decision i will have is whether to spend another few hundred on a specialist damp survey.

 

[bobasd]

given the cost of fixing up any new buy property to ones own satisfaction can cost anywhere between say £10,000 to £30,000 -
and given the cost of the average house then damp in two bays is not all that significant:
if the bays have raging dry rot it would have been spotted or smelt.
most structural issues to bays are also pretty obvious to a RICS surveyor (even a mortgage surveyor) - which i'm not, i'm a tradesman.

so, OP, do post the report, and do post some internal and external pics but if thats the house for you and all else being equal why not just go for it if thats the worst the surveyor has had to first report to you?

OP, on the basis of what you've said above there's no need to be paying out for further damp survey reports.

 

[John D v2.0]

the moisture content is based on the humidity
if the humidity under the boards is around 85% then the moisture content will be around 18%.
That wouldn't surprise me in an old damp void with not too much ventilation, if the house is unheated or there is flooring down.

 

[oldbutnotdead]

Are we talking ground floor only bay windows or full height (ground plus 1st floor). If the former then replacing the windows is not massively expensive, fishing in new cills (if the rest of the windows are in good nick) is not impossible. Do you know how long the place has been empty for?
Any specialist damp survey on a solid wall property will recommend hacking all plaster off to 1000mm, injection DPC, rerender and plaster internally, yada yada yada.

 

[danlightbulb]

Are we talking ground floor only bay windows or full height (ground plus 1st floor). If the former then replacing the windows is not massively expensive, fishing in new cills (if the rest of the windows are in good nick) is not impossible. Do you know how long the place has been empty for?
Any specialist damp survey on a solid wall property will recommend hacking all plaster off to 1000mm, injection DPC, rerender and plaster internally, yada yada yada.

Empty for 5 years but visited and heating put on occasionally by a relative.

Ground floor bay windows only (its a bungalow). 1930s build, solid brick walls with render on the outside top half of the house, bottom half exposed brick.

There has already been an injected DPC done at some point in the past (plugged holes visible in brick all the way round house). Surveyor said it wasn't probably doing alot. He is pretty convinced its the cills/windows causing the issue, and his concern is rotten joist ends underneath where they sit into the wall.

There are two sub floor vents in each bay's brickwork.

The windows are wooden 6mm double glazing. Probably 80's given the thin units. The cills are deteriorated but not rotten so I wasn't planning on replacing them yet, just sanding, filling, treating and repainting. I was estimating a grand a piece for replacing these bay windows.

Photos:

 

[Harry Bloomfield]

a different type of meter for the wood which read 18.4%, and that the action threshold they work to was 18%.

The meters are really not that super accurate/ able to differentiate between 18% and 18.4%. 20% measured moisture in timber is quite normal and nothing to worry about.

 

[bobasd]

the gutterless, flat lead roofs of the bays are discharging their rainwater straight down on to the sills, and probably creating splash.
the plinth brick projection could be holding water and be a possible cause of penetrating damp?
the bright red painted brickwork might be retaining moisture in the walls ie. interstitial condensation.

there will be an ample height crawl space below the FFL - so its a simple matter to inspect all joist bearings etc.

 

[danlightbulb]

So what do i do about it? Do i pay extra for a below floorboard inspection, do i budget for replacing the windows earlier than planned, do i have to consider reroofing the bays or doing something to the brick?

I was already planning to repaint the house anyway. The red painted half is a bit flaky in places so i was planning to use a stiff brush to get as much off as possible then repaint it a lighter colour to much lower on the wall.

What about using brick sealing solutions? before or after painting?

Or is this a sign to walk away?

 

[bobasd]

stop - you'll freak yourself out. all these items are almost mickey mouse stuff.
are you a first time buyer?

forget the paint - thank God i didn't mention wallpaper?

perhaps read the #6 post i wrote above.

buy the house and then come back here for help in doing it up - good luck.

 

[danlightbulb]

@bobasd ok, I did read, and then re-read your #6 post. I'm not a first time buyer having owned do-er-up-ers before when I was married about 10 years ago, but I've been renting since I got divorced. I am budgeting several £k for modernisation of the house already (over time - not all at once), I just want to make sure there is nothing ruinous there. I can handle shelling out for a new boiler, replastering etc, but can't financially handle major structural work.

 

[danlightbulb]

Hi again. I have recieved the surveyors report now and a few things concern me. Would there be any volunteers to give the report a look over (it contains personal details so don't want to just freely post it here)?

Thanks