Dangerous sparking from double plug socket - even when outlet switched off

[Harry Bloomfield]

I must admit I have never noticed it as a regulation but I remember the common practice being bare earth then everybody started to sleeve it at about the 14th . I understood that it was primarily for identification but it was at least considered to be a more appropriate method because it added "some sort of minor insulation" properties too.

So far as I am aware, there is no regulation insisting on the earth wire being sleeved. It is obvious which is the earth wire, so no need to identify it. The one good reason to sleeve is to reduce chances of the earth wire making contact with the live parts.

 

[EFLImpudence]

To be fair, EFLI, the question you asked was not about insulation, but sleeving.

Fair enough - but what prompted my original query was:

It appears that the bare Earth wire was NOT "sleeved" (with Green/Yellow" plastic tubing), as is REQUIRED in the UK.

which is not the case as written.

I wonder how my ECA check would have gone had I left all the sleeving off on my last rewire?

How do you think it would have gone?

It obviously depends on the assessor. Does he follow the myths or know better?


Do you think the CPC being bare is a safety hazard any more than the metal back box?

 

[EFLImpudence]

The one good reason to sleeve is to reduce chances of the earth wire making contact with the live parts.

Is the other way round not its purpose?

 

[jurassic sparkk]

. The one good reason to sleeve is to reduce chances of the earth wire making contact with the live parts.

That's such an old wives tale. It's always been cost saving rather than any "built in" fault protection benefit.

 

[securespark]

Fair enough - but what prompted my original query was:

which is not the case as written.


How do you think it would have gone?

I know how it would have gone. I'd have been in the poo with my employer and the ECA would not have signed off my install.

Do you think the CPC being bare is a safety hazard any more than the metal back box?

I have not said anything about a safety hazard.

The one good reason to sleeve is to reduce chances of the earth wire making contact with the live parts.

Is the other way round not its purpose?

I thought you were arguing there was no purpose to earth sleeving?

I thought you were arguing there was no need for earth sleeving at all?

But now you are saying the purpose of earth sleeving is to reduce the chances of live parts coming into contact with the CPC?

Which isn't in 7671. In any case, sleeving is not insulation.

So to sum up, you won't put sleeving on a cpc to identify it, but you will use it as some form of insulation, which was never its intended function.

 

[Harry Bloomfield]

Do you think the CPC being bare is a safety hazard any more than the metal back box?

Metal back boxes, are not noted for floating around in close proximity to live parts, CPC's can and do.

 

[jj4091]

we all tend to prefer to earn more rather than less.

No we don't ! I prefer to do what is necessary and no more.

 

[ebee]

No we don't ! I prefer to do what is necessary and no more.

We all prefer to earn more. Would you not like to earn 10% more or 100% more? I would, doesn`t mean I would cheat to earn more. Some folks change jobs for that reason or become a plumber rather than an electrician

 

[jj4091]

It is obvious which is the earth wire, so no need to identify it.

Possibly not to everybody. Could that be the reason 3 core flex earth wire is insulated and colour coded. A question not a criticism.

 

[EFLImpudence]

I know how it would have gone. I'd have been in the poo with my employer and the ECA would not have signed off my install.

Ok. Do as you are told regardless.

I have not said anything about a safety hazard.

No but presumably the reason for sleeving is thought to be safety.

I thought you were arguing there was no purpose to earth sleeving?

I am asking about that purpose.

I thought you were arguing there was no need for earth sleeving at all?

I am arguing about that need.

But now you are saying the purpose of earth sleeving is to reduce the chances of live parts coming into contact with the CPC?

No. I am arguing that that it is the purpose of a CPC - to then cause ADS if a live conductor touches it; the same as the reason for connecting the back box to that CPC.

Which isn't in 7671. In any case, sleeving is not insulation.

So, it might as well be bare, then?

So to sum up, you won't put sleeving on a cpc to identify it, but you will use it as some form of insulation, which was never its intended function.

No, I just asked if it was required as Frodo said it was.

You don't have to put sleeving on to identify it - and now I am puzzled that you think it is not isulation.

 

[jj4091]

We all prefer to earn more. Would you not like to earn 10% more or 100% more? I would, doesn`t mean I would cheat to earn more. Some folks change jobs for that reason or become a plumber rather than an electrician

If someone offered me more than I asked for ( which believe it or not does happen round here sometimes ) then I would probably reluctantly accept it. Certainly would not try to inflate the bill any other way

 

[veedee]

I do like trying to do things myself but electricity seems a step beyond what I'm comfortable with right now.

That's how they want you to feel.. If you are scared of electrics, then you'll never attempt any remedial work..

Electrics is easy, you just need confidence and knowledge.

 

[ebee]

That's how they want you to feel.. If you are scared of electrics, then you'll never attempt any remedial work..

Electrics is easy, you just need confidence and knowledge.

Electrics is easy, you just need to twist two wires together to make it work.
To do it safely is a completely different story.

 

[veedee]

Electrics is easy, you just need to twist two wires together to make it work.
To do it safely is a completely different story.

Plenty of great vids on YouTube to 'safely' learn how to do basic domestic electrical work.

I used to be like OP.. Afraid to come near a switch. Then I learned that its all fear mongering. Keep the masses afraid of electrics and it'll keep the sparkies employed..

OP the resources are there.. If you want recommendations on great channels to learn from, this is the forum to ask.

 

[Harry Bloomfield]

Electrics is easy, you just need confidence and knowledge.

The very basics - true, but overall it is a very, very complex and specialised subject, with numerous areas of specialisation. .