Dbl 13 amp socket

[Diyisfun]

Is it possible to get 4 x 2.5 twin & earth into a 13 amp dbl socket (ie are the terminal holes not big enough)?

 

[PrenticeBoyofDerry]

It is not impossible, some socket outlets are more accommodating than others, but why do you need to do this?
If you are using as a spur, there are regulations concerning the correct configuration to use and number of unfused spurs from a socket outlet.

 

[ericmark]

I seem to remember MK will take 3 x 4mm² but no where will a socket spec say it will take 4 cables. One of the reasons why it states only one spur from a ring is over three wires one can't be 100% fully clamped.

What I tend to do to comply is use two single sockets instead of a double either using a twin socket box which has centre screw holes to take two single sockets or a grid switch 4 module plate and two sockets which fit a standard double socket box so each socket only has three wires.

 

[JohnW2]

I seem to remember MK will take 3 x 4mm² but no where will a socket spec say it will take 4 cables. One of the reasons why it states only one spur from a ring is over three wires one can't be 100% fully clamped.

If it's using 4mm² cable, it would seem relatively unlikely that it is a ring, and even less likely that, even if it were a ring, 4mm² would be needed for spurs.

A radial with a 3-way branch would seem the more likely reason to need four 4mm² cables connected to one socket. As you say, I don't think the OP will find a socket which claims to have capacity for 4 x 4mm², although I imagine that it probably can be done, at least with some makes of socket. Adopting an alternative circuit topology would clearly be the better solution.

Kind Regards, John

 

[deadshort]

I have a building where all the RFC's are wired in 4mm, this is common practice in public buildings.


Regards,

DS

 

[JohnW2]

I have a building where all the RFC's are wired in 4mm, this is common practice in public buildings.

Yes, I understand that but the question was asked in a DIY forum, hence very probably related to a domestic installation rather than one in a public building, hence my comment that it was "relatively unlikely" that it was a 4mm² ring, even though it's obviously not impossible.

As a matter of interest, what OPD is used with the 4mm² ring finals you refer to, and do they also use 4mm² for spurs (if they have any)?

Kind Regards, John

 

[Diyisfun]

Sorted it..Thanks

 

[JohnW2]

Sorted it..Thanks

You mean you have managed to get four 4mm² conductors into the terminals? Would you be prepared to share with us the reason that this need arose - since, as has been implied, it would be a pretty unusual situation in a domestic installation?

Kind Regards, John

 

[Diyisfun]

If I said what I done you would all be B$%$£$%ing me.
So lets say its done working & safe.

 

[plugwash]

Is it possible to get 4 x 2.5 twin & earth into a 13 amp dbl socket (ie are the terminal holes not big enough)?

As has been said it's possible with at least some sockets, probablly most but as the number of wires in a terminal increases so does the risk of uneven clamping forces. This is especailly true with mains wires which have thick insulation.

It is not impossible, some socket outlets are more accommodating than others, but why do you need to do this?
If you are using as a spur, there are regulations concerning the correct configuration to use and number of unfused spurs from a socket outlet.

IIRC last time this was discussed it turned out that the "rules" on spurs were actuallly only guidance in an "informative" section of the regs. Furthermore while said guidance didn't show multiple spurs from the same point it didn't forbid them either.

Sorted it..Thanks

You mean you have managed to get four 4mm² conductors into the terminals?

Given that diyisfun never mentioned 4mm² and explicitly mentioned 2.5mm (presumablly meaning mm²) that seems like an unlikely interpretation of his post.

 

[JohnW2]

If you are using as a spur, there are regulations concerning the correct configuration to use and number of unfused spurs from a socket outlet.

IIRC last time this was discussed it turned out that the "rules" on spurs were actuallly only guidance in an "informative" section of the regs. Furthermore while said guidance didn't show multiple spurs from the same point it didn't forbid them either.

Agreed. Nothing in the regs, even the 'guidance' of Appendix 15, says forbids to spurs having the same point of origin. As you say, it is the absence of such an arrangement in the examples shown in the diagrams in that guidance which seems to lead some people to believe there is such a 'rule'. Some trying arguing on the basis of 'point loading' of a ring - but 2 spurs from one socket is not materially different in that respect from single spurs taken from each of two sockets (or JBs) which are a few inches apart on the ring.

Sorted it..Thanks

You mean you have managed to get four 4mm² conductors into the terminals?

Given that diyisfun never mentioned 4mm² and explicitly mentioned 2.5mm (presumablly meaning mm²) that seems like an unlikely interpretation of his post.

Oh Dear Most of what I've been writing was irrelevant - I was 'thrown' by eric's talk about 4mm ² and hence didn't notice that the OP had refered to "2.5mm". My apologies to everyone. Even though it's not ideal, 4 x 2.5mm ² conductors is a doddle in many/most sockets, even if they are not 'rated' for that.

Kind Regards, John

 

[JohnW2]

If I said what I done you would all be B$%$£$%ing me. So lets say its done working & safe.

Fair enough! However, as I've just admitted, I've been talking relative nonsense because I didn't read your initial message properly. I thought you were taking about 4 x 4mm² cables - which would be very unusual in a domestic situation. Whatever you have done with 4 x 2.5mm² ones quite probably is no different/'worse' than what many (most?) of us have done at times.

Glad you believe that it is 'working and safe'. Someone may well ask what tests you have undertaken in order to confirm that it is 'safe'

Kind Regards, John

 

[PrenticeBoyofDerry]

If I said what I done you would all be B$%$£$%ing me. So lets say its done working & safe.

Glad you believe that it is 'working and safe'. Someone may well ask what tests you have undertaken in order to confirm that it is 'safe'

Just out of real concern for yourself, your family, your pets, your property, your guests, your neighbours, your neighbours family, pets, guests, property etc..
How did you prove the work is safe

There you go John, I will ask, just hope some poor bugger don't get hurt!

 

[Diyisfun]

I did an electrical engineering apprenticeship, so I know a little bit, regs have changed, colours have changed.
What I have done is good enough for me.
When Im dead, someone may come & say wtf, just like I do with things I find in this property.

 

[JohnW2]

Glad you believe that it is 'working and safe'. Someone may well ask what tests you have undertaken in order to confirm that it is 'safe'

Just out of real concern for yourself, your family, your pets, your property, your guests, your neighbours, your neighbours family, pets, guests, property etc.. How did you prove the work is safe There you go John, I will ask, just hope some poor b*****r don't get hurt!

There's no harm in asking what is a perfectly valid question. The problem is, of course, that we know what would be the truthful answer in the case of the vast majority of DIY electrical work - so I'm not convinced that much is often achieved by asking the question.

As a matter of interest, what would you personally regard as the minimum 'acceptable' amount of testing of DIY work. Do you feel that no DIY electrical work should be undertaken unless the person concerned has the knowledge and equipment to undertake 'full proper tests' (as you or I would do), or would you say that something less than that would be 'acceptable' (even if not ideal)?

Kind Regards, John