Dedicated mains for hifi system.

[arcamalpha2003]

Hi all, I am looking to have a dedicated mains ring installed for my expensive hifi system, using its own consumer unit in parallel to the existing unit, I am told this is preferable than using an existing way from the existing consumer unit.
I would then only need one single socket fitted in the location my hifi is situated.
Does anyone have any idea how easy this would be to do as diy, or on the other hand how much I would expect to have to pay to have it done by a spark?
Bill

 

[Scoby_Beasley]

Take it your a dedicated audiophile then, especially with a name like arcam (good kit). This in theory stops any buzzes, clicks, squeaks when other appliances are turned on and ruining your listening pleasure (just wish they could shut washing m/c's, kids and 'better halves' up though ).
Why not run a spur (single cable) from your consumer unit in 2.5mm cable on its own 30amp mcb/fuse (sounds a lot but what happens if someone plugs a leccy fire in ?). Put this mcb/fuse after your 1 or 2 ring main 30amp fittings away from the incoming power by moving all other mcb/fuses 1 step along the bus bar and fit a double socket, always handy.
Switch off power, take consumer unit cover off and all will become clear as you study it.
If going for a seperate c/u you'll need an electrician to undo and reseal your main fuse control unit as you can't stop the power (unless dual pole switched) and you need the security tags re-fitted. P.C. plod is watching you !!!

 

[breezer]

I have a better idea, why not just plug it into the nearest socket with a computer "surge purge" (available form any well known computer store) computers are more sensative than audio sytems and its cheaper, i bet you are going to have "monster cable" for your speakers too.

 

[arcamalpha2003]

Thankyou for the feedback, I presently have an 8 way power block, which retails for £350.00, won it in a draw.
I currently have this connected to a double switchless mk socket, all my gear is then plugged into the block.
It is felt that giving the system its own consumer unit ran in paralel to the existing unit, can anyone explain this? dont worry, I am quite sensible and would not tamper unless I was 100% certain.
Wondering how much I would be looking to pay for the job to be done by a spark.
On the subject of mains cables, isnt it true that the thicker the cable the better? within limitations ofcourse!
My kit consists of arcam alpha a85 amp, £800.00, arcam alpha cd82 £600.00, b&w speakers £550.00, Qed speaker cables and interconnects.
Scoby, I have heard that 30 amp is the way to go, so I understand your reasoning.
Thanks again.
Bill

 

[breezer]

the reason you "should have" a consumers unit for your hi -fi is so that it does not receive any "spikes" from any thing else in the house. thats it.

(this does not mean to say that you will not get any from your supplier though)

As i mentioned you would be better off using a computer "socket" as it is better and most good ones come with a lifetime guarantee

The reason you "should use" thicker (monster cable) is that it has lower resistance the bigger cable you use, so unless you are going to be drawing a lot of current it is not required.

I personally think the hi -fi industry has done very well in conning people into thinking they must have anti this and anti that and bigger is better.

I admit that if you have a powerful system then "bell wire" would be of little use, but that is because it is too small for the current it will carry, it has nothing to do with sound, since sound is created by the movement of a cone going backwards and forwards (in speakers it is)

I have a couple of 300w speakers and an amp to suit, if i want to put the speakers outside (bbq) i use alarm cable but i do treble the cores, but this is only because of the distance run.

If i were to use just one core due to the distance by the time the voltage (signal) arrive it would have "run out of steam" so trebling the cores gives less resistance so when the voltage arrives it can drive the speakers and their cross over networks.

do me a favor (if you can) open an amp, (unpugged of course) how big are the cables that connect to the terminals / plugs that you connect your speakers to to (Mine is all sealed up)

 

[arcamalpha2003]

Good point about the supplier side of things, I read an article a while ago which went into this in detail, about noise polution on mains.
I have experienced many speaker cables, interconnects in the time I have been interested in hi fi, and I can say that they do make a difference.
They will not make a poor system better, but will optimise what you have.

quote:
I admit that if you have a powerful system then "bell wire" would be of little use, but that is because it is too small for the current it will carry, it has nothing to do with sound, since sound is created by the movement of a cone going backwards and forwards (in speakers it is)


I trust by the above statement you are not saying that sound wise bell wire is just as good as a cable costing more, the type of speaker cable used will make an impact on the sound.



quote:
do me a favor (if you can) open an amp, (unpugged of course) how big are the cables that connect to the terminals / plugs that you connect your speakers to to (Mine is all sealed up)



Unfortunately, as I have not had my amp that long, I wouldnt want to invalidate the warranty by opening it up, but it is known that there is also a difference in the cables used that connect to the terminals, depending again how much you spend on the amp.
I can see where you are coming from on the above matter, but again, different cables will have different effects on what you ultimately hear, it has nothing to do with the hifi industry misleading people, I dont know what kind of system you have, but go to a hifi dealer and loan a couple of runs of speaker cable from different manufacturers at different price points and compare, you may be surprised.
Bill

 

[breezer]

we will have to agree to disagree.

what is every one else's opinion?

 

[arcamalpha2003]

we will have to agree to disagree.

what is every one else's opinion?

How can you disagree unless you have tested the subject?
A bit like me saying I disagree that coffee is tasty without ever sampling it.
Bill

 

[breezer]

i disagree because i do not agree with the fact of bigger cables make it sound better. (that is apart from using something that is obviously far too small for the job)

I also disagree with having a "separate supply" soley for a hi fi sytem.

All that does is route the mains in anoter direction. I do not see (or hear) the differnce between plugging your system (what ever you have) into a standard 13 a socket that is already their. (providing there is nothing "noisy" on the origonal ring)

The theory behind doing this is so that you will not get any electrical "noise" from the mains supply, but as i said why not use a "clean socket adaptor" fom a computer store.

I have seen people using "monster cable" and the like to improve sound quality etc but it makes no difference (depending on distance of cable run)


The only real problem is that of "noise on the mains"

as i said it is only my opinion, which is why we will have to agree to disagree, and also why i wondered what others opinions are

 

[arcamalpha2003]

A lot of research into using the standard sockets already in place, and fitting a consumer unit in parallel to the existing one has been carried out by respected people, some with nothing to gain financially.
Using a clean socket adaptor will not go the whole way, there has to be things in place beforehand, better cables is one of them.
Even upgrading from the standard kettle lead provided by the manufacturer has a profound effect.
Lowering the impedance has a positive effect on the sound.
Other peoples opininons are most welcome, mine is having tested many cables, they do make a difference.

 

[Scoby_Beasley]

Not as devoted as you arcam but a few years (10) back I bought some antique "huge" Wharfedales that had been re-fitted by his audiophile brother off a mate for £50 (Gave them away recently, boo hoo).
Me and the ex had split, so funds short so I used "ordinary" twin core flex that you would use for side lamps.
When I went shopping for some gold plated i/connects from Tandy I saw reels of speaker cable at v reasonable prices so I bought a reel.
What a difference ! Bass was tighter, treble crisper without being too tinny, and this was cheap stuff !!

I don't agree with looking for a c/u with a gold plated busbar though !!

The next discussion should be about single or multi core cable as the signal travels on the surface of the core strand(s) (just thought I'd throw a wobbler in )

 

[arcamalpha2003]

Good to hear about your experience, so in your opinion you noticed a difference?
I always say that the cheap interconnects you are given in the box with your cd player should be consigned to the bin, or used to thread your shoes, many years ago I had a similar experience to you.
I purchased a set of tandy interconnects, about a tenner I think they cost, but the build quality compared to the bootlaces supplied with the player was stunning, as was the sound quality.
What you find when you have a good system is as you go up the ladder in price, the quality comes with it, both build and sound wise.
But admittedly, I will hold my hands up here and say there does come a time when you cannot squeeze any more from your system, you then have to upgrade your system!

Now, as for a cu with goldplated busbar? have you got a spare one?

Cheers,
Bill.

 

[breezer]

If you are serious about having a cosumers unit which has a gold plated busbar, i doubt you will ever find one, BUT why not buy an ordainairy consumers unit, take it apart, and ask these people to do it for you

 

[Scoby_Beasley]

That was a jest breezer,
Its just that gold is supposed to be the best signal carrier and the i/connects from tandy are g/plated, a tenner for two, fifteen for four way (was when I got mine).
I'd like to see a gold plated c/u though !!!
Incidentally my mates "brother" goes out and spends a fortune on hi-fi, gets it home and starts upgrading components straight away. My mate then gets his cast offs and what a system he has ! But, wait for it, he's deaf in the left ear !!! So much for stereo eh !!!

 

[masona]

Maybe he got a mono system!!