Defects or 17th Edition update?

[frazzled2008]

Hi all,
I'm in the process of selling my flat and the buyer has just had an electrical inspection/test carried out and the guy has said the following are defects that need rectifying;

1. Upgrade fuse board to CU with earth leakage (RCD) and MCB's.
2. Upgrade fuse board (off-peak) to CU with MCB's.
3. Earth bonding to water incomer, cross bond pipe work and zone bond in bathroom.

Are these actually defects or just requirements of new regs? Quoted £800 for the work to be carried out.

Flat was built in 1984 and is twin&earth wired.

Any advice greatly appreciated. Cheers

 

[flameport]

1. Upgrade fuse board to CU with earth leakage (RCD) and MCB's.

It would certainly be desirable to have RCD protection for sockets, and is a requirement of the 17th edition regs. However this does not mean the whole lot has to be replaced.

2. Upgrade fuse board (off-peak) to CU with MCB's.

No requirement. Probably doesn't comply with the 17th, unless the wires are very deep in the walls or have metal outer sheathing. Just replacing fuses with MCBs will provide little or no benefits.

3. Earth bonding to water incomer, cross bond pipe work and zone bond in bathroom.

If there is no main bonding to the water, this needs to be done ASAP - it was a requirement in 1984 and still is today.

As for the others - the bathroom could need this (although if installing RCDs maybe not). Other pipes - almost certainly NOT required.

If they were intending putting supplementary bonds under the kitchen sink, then they are wrong.

 

[jason1958]

A PIR is a comparison to current regulations.

1. BR & Wiring Regs are not retrospective.

There is no legal requirement for the points to be rectified, full stop.
If the buyer wants it a) they pay b) their offer knocks it off your price subject to your agreement c) you pay.

2. MEB (MET to Gas/Water) is a requirement under ESQW.

This requires rectification as it is a condition of electrical supply.

Of course if the buyer can find an identical house which has more modern wiring for the same price, they will buy that PIR is acting for the buyer to work your price lower, estate agent will want the sale thro on their monthly bonus, lots of stakeholders wanting their bit of pie.

 

[Taylortwocities]

Essentially your house was wired to a previous version of the regulations.
Wiring Regulations are not retrospective and there is no requirement to update wiring, install new fuseboards, etc just because new regs are issued. Us electricians would love it if it were the case as we would never, ever be out of work!

New additions or changes to the installation do have to be done to the new regulations, however.

When an Periodic Inspection is done the inspector will check the installation against the current regulations and note items as deviations to (in this case) BS7671 (2008). These deviations will be classed from 1 (downright dangerous) to 4 (does not meet the current version of the regulations). I'd like to see how they have classed each one so we can all argue and comment

It would be very nice for the buyer to have your house upgraded to the latest regs (at your expense) but you should push back.

Per the above: the earthing and bonding should be done as this is a "basic" requirement.

Hope this helps

 

[ban-all-sheds]

Yeah - it's a negotiation point.

Only trouble is that it's not really a seller's market right now....

 

[Albert]

Just a small addition to what was correctly said, the RCD requirement in not a new one. For example internal sockets that supplied equipment used outdoors should be protected by RCD, there are other cases but this remark is just to make a point. So a requirement for RCD in the CU might be reasonable but again it is all to do with money so negotiate...

 

[jason1958]

May I just add one extra thought?

Smart move...
o Agree to some of works as goodwill
o Eg, first negotiation gets MEB, second negotiation up to you
o Agree ONLY as a DISCOUNT on the price

Bad move...
o Agree to some of the works as goodwill
o Eg, first negotiation gets MEB, second negotiation up to you
o Agree to PAY for MEB fixed & CU changed before sale

Why bad?
A CU change involves a detailed EIC which may reveal the wiring has low IR, high EFLI, RCDs trip. You are then leaving yourself open to giving them a free rewire as well £4000.00.

Of course their PIR may say all the wiring is ok.
Alternatively it may be a cunning move on the part of the buyer/buyers solicitor.

A CU change is *not* stick-a-new-box-on-the-wall. Good luck

 

[ColJack]

May I just add one extra thought?

Smart move...
o Agree to some of works as goodwill
o Eg, first negotiation gets MEB, second negotiation up to you
o Agree ONLY as a DISCOUNT on the price

I believe you ment ONLY as an ADDITION to the price, since he's the seller and not the buyer..

 

[electronicsuk]

I believe you ment ONLY as an ADDITION to the price, since he's the seller and not the buyer..

Why would the prospective buyer want to pay extra for the house to cover this work? Either they would pay for it themselves or agree a discount on the house to cover cost of the works.