Demand Letter

[Sid1968]

Needs some advice please
I had my front garden concreted. whilst my contractor started digging the garden he exposed an old electrical live cable without a pot end.
Rang electricity north west came out and looked on its laptop it used to be a old street lamp cable.
Now my property used to be a pub with side land which is our garden now at one time there probably was a street lamp on the land.
The north west electricity guy called an assistant (im assumin there must be a policy u need 2 people to work on live cables). He came out put a pot end on it and buried it on my land.

I thought that was that but after 2 half months i recieve a bill addressed to the HOMEOWNER for £1040 labour and £38 material for repair to the damage of the cable

There was no damage! It was exposed connected to nothing i rang in they came out and put a pot end on it and buried it on my land
Also how do they justify £1040 labour for less than half hours work

Do i have a case ????

 

[Sid1968]

If Its addressed to the HOMEOWNER am i liable because the contractor rang the services??

 

[JohnW2]

I had my front garden concreted. whilst my contractor started digging the garden he exposed an old electrical live cable without a pot end. ... I thought that was that but after 2 half months i recieve a bill addressed to the HOMEOWNER for £1040 labour and £38 material for repair to the damage of the cable

If you are really sure that your contractor did no damage, it sounds ridiculous that they should attempt to charge you (even if they could justify the amount)!

If I were you, I would first speak to them and make sure that they understand the situation - it could be that there has been a misunderstanding on the part of the the people who do billing.

If they persist in saying that you owe them the money, I think the next person to speak to would be a solicitor, or the CAB.

Kind Regards, John

 

[John D v2.0]

It's a big organisation, the left hand won't know what the right hand is doing. Just call them to explain why you won't be paying and let them deal with it internally.

 

[motorbiking]

Have a look on the ofgem website any rights they have will be documented there.

 

[Sid1968]

Thanx

Il check ofgem site

 

[HawkEye244]

If Its addressed to the HOMEOWNER am i liable because the contractor rang the services??

Short answer is NO. I would not ring them to tell them you will not be paying, as obviously they will pressure you for details which they will use to take you to court, if it comes to that. At the moment they are chancing it, hoping you will give your details. I would now avoid all contact and maintain zero communication with them, eventually it will go away on it's own. You had no contract at the time and agreed to nothing, there's nothing they can do to you unless you put your foot right in it.

 

[JohnW2]

Short answer is NO. I would not ring them to tell them you will not be paying, as obviously they will pressure you for details which they will use to take you to court, if it comes to that. At the moment they are chancing it, hoping you will give your details. I would now avoid all contact and maintain zero communication with them, eventually it will go away on it's own. You had no contract at the time and agreed to nothing, there's nothing they can do to you unless you put your foot right in it.

For what it's worth, I wouldn't personally advise that. As JohnD has said, they are a big organisation, undoubtedly with internal communication problems, and probably currently believe that the bill is 'correct'.

However, they undoubtedly have all sorts of automated processes and protocols in place so I would strongly suspect that if the OP just ignores what they regard as being a legitimate bill, their ('unstoppable') systems will automatically get progressively 'heavier' with him and will ultimately resort to legal action. Whilst one hopes that a court would eventually find in his favour, I'm sure he doesn't want the uncertainty and hassle of all that. I don't think the fact that they currently only know him as "the homeowner" would do much to prevent them pursuing him - utility companies and even Council Tax people often use such language (probably in case 'the homeowner' has changed relative to their records).

If, as I suggested, the OP speaks to them and explain the situation, it's quite possible that the problem will be rapidly resolved (and the bill 'withdrawn'), particularly if heu can find a sensible person to speak to. At the least, if he is going to 'refuse to pay', life for him could well be easier if they understood that there was, at least in his mind, a good reason why he was refusing to pay (rather than 'just not paying').

However, it's obviously the OP's decision. As I said before, he could talk to a lawyer or the CAB.

P.S. I'm no lawyer, but it's even not inconceivable that, in law, they are actually 'in the wrong' by having cables on the OP's property which are nothing to do with his present electrical installation, without his permission (and/or payment to him for the privilege!).

Kind Regards, John

 

[HawkEye244]

For what it's worth, I wouldn't personally advise that. As JohnD has said, they are a big organisation, undoubtedly with internal communication problems, and probably currently believe that the bill is 'correct'.

However, they undoubtedly have all sorts of automated processes and protocols in place so I would strongly suspect that if you just ignore what they regard as being a legitimate bill, their ('unstoppable') systems will automatically get progressively 'heavier' with you and will ultimately resort to legal action. Whilst one hopes that a court would eventually find in your favour, I'm sure you don't want the uncertainty and hassle of all that. I don't think the fact that they currently only know you as "the homeowner" would do much to prevent them pursuing you - utility companies and even Council Tax people often use such language (probably in case 'the homeowner' has changed relative to their records).

If, as I suggested, you speak to them and explain the situation, it's quite possible that the problem will be rapidly resolved (and the bill 'withdrawn'), particularly if you can find a sensible person to speak to. At the least, if you are going to 'refuse to pay', life for you could well be easier if they understood that there was, at least in your mind, a good reason why you were refusing to pay (rather than 'just not paying').

However, it's obviously your decision. As I said before, you could talk to a lawyer or the CAB.

Kind Regards, John

John, perhaps that's one way of looking at it, but I can assure you that no company no matter of size can take a person to court if they cannot establish who that person is. As the OP states he agreed to nothing, there's no verbal or written proof of contract, and that's all courts are interested in, because without a contract there is no legal recourse, as most of us here know. Getting written contracts in place for work, etc, is vital to protect oneself. I can assure you that just because a company is large, it does not make it 'unstoppable', in fact I've found the opposite to be quite true. The systems they use are too big to work effectively, and where there is miscommunication, they often have a terrible time trying to prove who said what, because they don't know, as illustrated here. The OP has no obligation to pay, or to correct their internal service errors, no obligation whatsoever. Ha, it's not as though they are going to turn up one day, dig out the cable and put it back how it was in dangerous condition, now is it? OP is laughing, but if he takes your advice and gives up his position, they will start sending letters to his legal name, which will only make things worse. I do agree with you though, that one should never refuse to pay, but this is a given if you maintain zero communicaton with them, there is no need to refuse anything as you simply ignore them.There is nothing they can do. Lawyers, ofgem, etc are very much tricksters in these matters, often giving out misleading information to the public which ends up tying them in knots, and getting them into expensive legal wranglings.

Either way, your entitled to your viewpoint. It's a reasonable one I suppose.

 

[Sid1968]

I think u are correct in if i rang them they will ask for my details etc etc
Would it be advisable if i emailed them???
This way i can refer to them by the reference numbr on the letter and not disclose any of my details

 

[EFLImpudence]

I'm not sure about Hawkeye's theory although it is intriguing.

Email will give them your email address. You could write the old fashioned way and sign it 'The Householder'.

 

[JohnW2]

John, perhaps that's one way of looking at it, but I can assure you that no company no matter of size can take a person to court if they cannot establish who that person is.

Of course not - but it would be easy enough for them to establish his identity. Apart from anything else, at least via his 'electricity supplier', he is presumably one of their 'customers'!

As the OP states he agreed to nothing, there's no verbal or written proof of contract, and that's all courts are interested in, because without a contract there is no legal recourse, as most of us here know.

I really don't want to play at being a lawyer, since I have no expertise in that field, but I would think that there could well be an implied verbal contract, since someone (whose name was probably taken, and maybe even the call recorded) asked the DNO to do something about the cable, and a court might even be inclined to assume that, since the cable was on the OP's land, that 'someone' was acting on behalf of the owner of the property.

A series of follow-up 'reminders', 'threatening letters' and, ultimately, a 'Letter before Action' are quite probably already 'programmed in' to their system should the bill not been paid by specific points in time.

However, that's all just 'my opinion' and, as I've said, I'm no lawyer, so it's up to the OP to decide. It would seemingly do him no harm to talk to the CAB (or maybe OFGEM - although, as you say, I'm not sure I would necessarily 'trust them').

Kind Regards, John

 

[JohnW2]

I think u are correct in if i rang them they will ask for my details etc etc
Would it be advisable if i emailed them??? This way i can refer to them by the reference numbr on the letter and not disclose any of my details

As I've just written, I would think it naive to believe that they cannot easily ascertain the identity of the owner of your property, particularly given that they presumably supply your electricity - so I really don't think there is any point in attempting to remain 'incognito'.

One thing seems pretty clear. If you simply ignore them they will continue to try to get the money (which they currently believe they 'deserve') and that, if 'the homeowner' continues to fail to pay that they will then take steps to ascertain your actual identity.

Kind Regards, John

 

[Sid1968]

Im a real worryer when it comes to somethin like this. Id like to get it resolved before it escalates.

Il like to have my say. Im confident i have a strong case regardin exposed cable definately not damaged and not connected to anythin also no mention of that i will be liable for payments for repairing the cable. Also justification of labour cost for putting a pot end on the cable and burying on my land

I will email them and see what happens

 

[Sid1968]

I am just looking through the cost breakdown page

for labour it has 23.50 single time hours ( half hour doing the job and 23 hrs sitting in van drinking brews lol )
3 meter of 35mm2 cable (which is incorrect no cable was used)

how can you justify the above for terminating a open end cable and burying it in the same location

Im sure they are just trying it on and trying their luck. Im Quite confident they cant take this furhter

Im kicking my self that i should have kept my cctv footage of all the repair but crafty DNO has sent a letter after 2 1/2 months and my footage only go bk 4 weeks and had a clear view of the job