DNO seal

[Softus]

Maybe elec board should fit isolators as standard so people dont need to pull the fuse .

Not a bad idea.

...as long as the meter and stuff doesnt look like its been played with then whats the problem ... fit a new seal and be done with it

The problem is that a crime has been committed, which is what I was interested in knowing, which is why I created the topic. Fitting a new seal doesn't negate the crime, it only conceals it, which, if the concealment wasn't effective, creates a risk of a greater penalty for attempting to pervert the course of justice.

a live tail fell out of a meter so we had to pull fuse .... or leave it hanging there for 10 days waiting for someone to cut the seal.

How would a tail have 'fallen out', I wonder.

 

[Deleted member 54734]

Maybe elec board should fit isolators as standard so people dont need to pull the fuse ...

We do in our area on all new connections or a change to a 2rate tariff we fit a 3pole as standard.

If the seals have to be broken for what ever reason who ever broke them should phone up explain why, and ask for a reseal and I'm sure they would over look the tampering aspect if it was dangerous.

A live tail wouldn't be left 10 days anyway, we have engineers on call specifically for that kind of instance.

 

[gman76]

My 100a fuse has no seals on it, nor the cover over the meter terminations.
For the reasons stated above, I am not worried - it would seem neither was the sparky who fitted a new CU in November (maybe it was his doing).

 

[Taylortwocities]

Meter reading is usually sub contracted to another company. I expect they are supposed to check & report if the seal is missing but (in my experience) they just dash in, record the reading and dash out again.

They certainly wouldnt be examining the seal to see (for instance) if the two cut ends of the seals wire had been pused back under the holes in the fuse holder. (Hypothetical thoughts, on my part. never seen it done - of course )

 

[crystal ball]

Meter reading is usually sub contracted to another company. I expect they are supposed to check & report if the seal is missing but (in my experience) they just dash in, record the reading and dash out again.

They certainly wouldnt be examining the seal to see (for instance) if the two cut ends of the seals wire had been pused back under the holes in the fuse holder. (Hypothetical thoughts, on my part. never seen it done - of course )

Too true, I was fitting a new CU a few years ago, when the meter reader arrived, he read the meter and went, even though I had the cut out fuse in my hand at the time

 

[ColJack]

how would you get out of that one if he'd noticed?

"I just found it lying on the floor next to the meter... honest!!"

 

[Stoday]

Is there a law against cutting it?

If so, what is that law?

Is there a law against removing the DNO fuse in order to work safely on an installation?

If so, what is that law?

Yep. The Electricity Safety, quality and Continuity Regulations 2002, Statutory Instrument No. 2665.

Clause 25 (1) No person shall make or alter a connection from a distributor's network to a consumer's installation, ... without that distributor's consent, unless such consent has been unreasonably withheld.

The DNO is constrained by clause 24 of the same regulations:

24. - (1) A distributor or meter operator shall ensure that each item of his equipment which is on a consumer's premises but which is not under the control of the consumer (whether forming part of the consumer's installation or not) is -
(a) suitable for its purpose;
(b) installed and, so far as is reasonably practicable, maintained so as to prevent danger; and
(c) protected by a suitable fusible cut-out or circuit breaker which is situated as close as is reasonably practicable to the supply terminals.

(2) Every circuit breaker or cut-out fuse forming part of the fusible cut-out mentioned in paragraph (1)(c) shall be enclosed in a locked or sealed container as appropriate.

So if someone removes the seal, the DNO's not complying with the law. So it won't allow you to remove the seal.

If you go ahead anyway, you are trespassing on the DNO's property. Now I can't quote a law on trespass because it's common law. You can't be prosecuted for trespass (in spite of notices such as 'trespassers will be prosecuted').

Now I don't know what happens if you break the seal. I can only guess, but I'm not about to do so.

I already feel like I'm a BAS.

 

[ColJack]

but surely then it's not against clause 25 to cut the seals to fit a new CU as long as you use the existing tails since these are the customers and you are not making or altering a connection to the distributers network..

you're altering the customers installation, not the DNO's..

 

[spongsdad]

I'm no expert, but surely if clause 25 says it is unlawful to "make" or "alter" a connection from the distributor's network to a consumer's installation then it seems to me to be unlawful to replace a main fuse after cutting the seal and removing the fuse. Isn't replacing the fuse "making" the connection? Or is it just re-making it?

 

[jj4091]

but surely then it's not against clause 25 to cut the seals to fit a new CU as long as you use the existing tails since these are the customers and you are not making or altering a connection to the distributers network..

you're altering the customers installation, not the DNO's..

Wouldn't that make fitting henley blocks illegal as well, I've never seen one sealed.

 

[Taylortwocities]

Round here (SNS) they often install a meter that has an integral cut out. You can disconnect the phase by removing a small cover and turning a screw a quarter turn. When you remove the cover you can also access the terminals for the tails to the CU.

Usually they seal the cover so you have to break the seal to get at what you need

 

[RF Lighting]

Round our way the new meters the DNO / meterplus are installing have two covers on, allowing you access to the terminal screws for the consumers side only, leaving the DNO side still sealed. (Although for some reason the DNO seal has been removed in this picture). There is also an integral SP isolator switch.

 

[Taylortwocities]

Yes , it sounds like the same meter but they seal both sides - stupido

 

[equitum]

Illegal or not, has ANY qualified spark or competent person (for example an individual registered with a self certification scheme) EVER been prosecuted ?


I have recently gone through the "correct" route (having also gone through the incorrect route ) to request, via powergen a "de-energise/energise" for a CU replacement. After at least 2 hours of attempting to get through, being fobbed off, passed from pillar to post, I eventually got an EON engineer booked for 2 days laster to come and pull the fuse. He actually fitted an isolator (even though not requested..probably so he didn't have to come back and reenergize ) and left the existing inadequate tails which must have been all of 10mm, which was great as I could make a brew and have the radio on etc while doing some of the prework.

Summary - process/customer service crap, engineer spot on, left wondering if its worth the hassle of booking the de-energise/energise.

 

[Adam_151]

Summary - process/customer service rubbish, engineer spot on, left wondering if its worth the hassle of booking the de-energise/energise.

At least with EON/Central networks, you can call them up and book isolators, which takes the co-ordination of yourself and the DNO out of the equation

Still hassle, but a bit less hassle than with other DNOs

(Know people who still just chop the seals tho!)