Do I need an electrician to replace a heater?

[Callum M]

Hello.

I'm a landlord in Scotland and looking to replace wall mounted electric panel heaters with ceiling mounted Far IR heaters (Herschel). The current Dimplex 2kW panel heaters are wired to a fused spur, but they appear to be on the same circuit at the sockets in each room. (i.e. when I flipped the circuit breaker, everything went off). I thought heating circuits were normally different from sockets. I had an EICR completed last year, and the Electrician replaced the CU as part of that work, however he didn't comment on the heating/socket circuit arrangement so assuming it is ok?

To keep the costs down and to make it easier for my schedule, I want to mount the heaters / controller myself and connect it to the existing fused spur, the new heaters are only 700W as opposed to the 2kW previously. I won't have hidden wires, I will use trunking.

Does anyone know if this work would be considered an alteration to a circuit, and therefore need a certificate from an approved Electrician? I'm a little hazy to as what I can and can't do myself (i.e. can I change a light fitting myself?)

If I DO need a Cert, would it be appropriate for me to do ALL the donkey work myself, and just get the Electrician in at the end to literally connect the wires to the terminals in the existing spur and write a Cert? Say, 5 mins work for each heater?

Thoughts would be appreciated.

Thanks a lot.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

I'm a landlord in Scotland and looking to replace wall mounted electric panel heaters with ceiling mounted Far IR heaters (Herschel).

If you hate having tenants so much that you want to make your property so unliveable that you have no tenants, wouldn't it be quicker and easier to just sell up and stop being a landlord?

 

[Naz1977]

If you hate having tenants so much that you want to make your property so unliveable that you have no tenants, wouldn't it be quicker and easier to just sell up and stop being a landlord?

If you don't have anything constructive to say, then don't say anything at all!

Hello.

I'm a landlord in Scotland and looking to replace wall mounted electric panel heaters with ceiling mounted Far IR heaters (Herschel). The current Dimplex 2kW panel heaters are wired to a fused spur, but they appear to be on the same circuit at the sockets in each room. (i.e. when I flipped the circuit breaker, everything went off). I thought heating circuits were normally different from sockets. I had an EICR completed last year, and the Electrician replaced the CU as part of that work, however he didn't comment on the heating/socket circuit arrangement so assuming it is ok?

To keep the costs down and to make it easier for my schedule, I want to mount the heaters / controller myself and connect it to the existing fused spur, the new heaters are only 700W as opposed to the 2kW previously. I won't have hidden wires, I will use trunking.

Does anyone know if this work would be considered an alteration to a circuit, and therefore need a certificate from an approved Electrician? I'm a little hazy to as what I can and can't do myself (i.e. can I change a light fitting myself?)

If I DO need a Cert, would it be appropriate for me to do ALL the donkey work myself, and just get the Electrician in at the end to literally connect the wires to the terminals in the existing spur and write a Cert? Say, 5 mins work for each heater?

Thoughts would be appreciated.

Thanks a lot.

it all really depends on how competent are you ?

The laws are different when dealing with letting properties. There is nothing to say you can't do the work yourself, provided you are competent to do it. But as it is a rented property, once you have the work done, you need to get an electrician to issue you an EICR again to confirm all is ok.

Depending on the cost your leccy will charge you for EICR, then you might want to consider getting him to wire them to the FSUs. You can mount them on the walls, and run the cabling all the way to the FSUs, then get him to terminate in the FSU and then do the testing. That way if anything was ever to go wrong, you can get him to sort it out. otherwise it will be a battle as to whose fault it is.

It is not classified as an alteration to a circuit. If you wanted to add a heater to a room where there were no existing heaters, then that would be classified as alteration.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

If you don't have anything constructive to say, then don't say anything at all!

Clearly you have no idea how useless and inappropriate is the type of heating which the OP is proposing to install.

 

[endecotp]

replace wall mounted electric panel heaters with ceiling mounted Far IR heaters (Herschel).

Are you sure that's a good idea?

 

[Naz1977]

Clearly you have no idea how useless and inappropriate is the type of heating which the OP is proposing to install.

What has that got anything to do with you or anyone else what he is putting in HIS house?

If he is planning on putting something inappropriate in HIS property which would make HIM lose his tenants, and then having to pay to get some new tenants in, then it is his problem.

You come across as a bit of a Keyboard warrior. Having joined in 2003, you must be getting on a bit by now. But I don't understand your attitude unless you are still a little baby.

 

[endecotp]

it is his problem.

This is an advice site. People ask questions, others offer advice. Sometimes the advice is not directly answering the question asked because the question reveals some more fundamental issue. In this case, what Callum M is proposing seems like a lunatic idea. Maybe he doesn't know that, maybe he's seen some marketting blurb that has convinced him these heaters are great. Or maybe he does know how awful this will be but doesn't care because he hates his tennants and wants them to leave. Or maybe there is some other factor we don't know that means it isn't lunatic after all. It is worthwhile to discuss all this.

 

[crystal ball]

Clearly you have no idea how useless and inappropriate is the type of heating which the OP is proposing to install.

Thats probably true, but why do you have to come in all guns blazing, the OP is clearly a fairly new member and probably not used to your lack of tact, and habit of advising people on issues not relevant to the post. If you brushed up on your social skills people might listen more.

 

[EFLImpudence]

The laws are different when dealing with letting properties.

Different again in Scotland.

There is nothing to say you can't do the work yourself, provided you are competent to do it. But as it is a rented property, once you have the work done, you need to get an electrician to issue you an EICR again to confirm all is ok.

Does he?
All work, within reason, should have a certificate - EIC or MEIWC - issued by the person doing or certifying the work.

FSUs.

FCU - Fused Connection Unit or SFCU - Switched FCU.
The cable is the Fused Spur.

It is not classified as an alteration to a circuit. If you wanted to add a heater to a room where there were no existing heaters, then that would be classified as alteration.

So what?

 

[Callum M]

Thanks for the feedback. There seems to be some hating on ceiling mounted Far Infrared heating. Perhaps I should have asked for opinions on that instead of asking about the installation! Are they really that bad? What are the typical issues people complain about?

I've read a lot of marketing material, viewed and felt the heaters in a customer's installation and read a lot of reviews of the Herschel products, they seem overwhelmingly positive. Some of the wording in the marketing material in this field is admittedly terrible (e.g. increased electrical efficiency claims), but aside from that, it seems a solid enough product with long guarantee that can (hopefully) save me some money on bills, deliver me some smart controls and a nice, more even warmth instead of the furnace like Dimplex panel heaters I have right now.

Appreciate the feedback

 

[flameport]

What are the typical issues people complain about?

The main problem with IR is that you only get any heat when directly in front of the panel (or directly below it for a ceiling installation).
The air of the room is not heated, and anywhere other than under the panel will be cold.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

How can they possibly save money on bills when you're already using electric heating?

As for reviews - I doubt that there is a single product of any type made anywhere for which you can't find some good reviews on the site of the people selling it.

 

[Doggit]

Panel heaters are always going to be expensive to run, but you can have them on whenever you want. A lot of rental properties have storage heaters that run on the off peak rate, but then you still need something in the cold evenings. Storage heaters have a separate circuit so that they can run on the overnight rate, and that's possibly what you were expecting.

You mentioned that the IR heaters would save you money, so that suggests that you provide the heating in the rent, but you might be better off getting a 1kw wall panel instead. But if that's the case, would you be better off making the renants pay for their own heating. What size is the room for instance, as a 700w IR heater may not be sufficient, and as Flameport said, you only feel the heat when you are in the line of the, so it's a little bit like going out of the sun on a windy day, without the direct sunshine, it suddenly feels cold.

 

[endecotp]

Are they really that bad?

It's like an open fire; if you're close to it you get hot on the side of your body that's facing it but everything else remains cold.

 

[JohnD]

If a room needs 2kw of heat to keep it at 20C on a cold day, then it's no good providing a 700W heater. It will be cold. The only winner will be the person selling you these magic heaters. It doesn't matter if you are using panel heaters or infrared or oil-filled. And if the existing heaters make the room too warm, turn their thermostats down a bit. IMO oil-filled keep a room at a more even temperature, so it is more comfortable. A heater at each end of a room will avoid having a cold end and a hot end.

There may be a shorter or longer delay between turning on the heaters and the room getting warm, and equally between turning them off and the room going cold, but there is no magic way of getting more heat with less electricity.