Do I need planning permission for a loft conversion

[ban-all-sheds]

how easy is it to replace a set of brake pads? how easy is it for a qualified mechanic?

it is pee easy and if you dont know how to change your pads or overhaul your braking system then you can pick it all up from a manual or from some instructions online.

So you think that the structural calculations, the building work, the detailing, all the activities needed to ensure (and show in advance) compliance with the requirements for structural safety, fire safety, resistance to contaminants and moisture, resistance to sound, ventilation, sanitation, drainage and waste disposal (if applicable), heat producing appliances, conservation of fuel and power, electrical safety, workmanship and materials are no more complex than replacing brake pads?

i would guess that brake failure have the potential to be considerably more dangerous than a floor joist falling out of place.

What about the entire roof collapsing? What about structural damage to someone elses property?

can the OP use a measure tape, a saw and a screw driver?

Is that all he needs to be able to do to calculate, for example, what size steels are needed?

then lets not assume that he is an idiot

I'm not.

I actually said I wasn't assuming that.

I might start assuming that you are though, if you fail to read properly.

and that you dont need to be a self righteous 'learned' "expert"(?) to convert a loft or fix your brakes.

You do need to be just as competent as a professional structural engineer, for example.

Runs in paintwork, bubbles in wallpaper and the pattern not matching, lumpy plaster, wonky shelves, doors that don't quite fit, a lawn full of dips and crests, none of these will kill you. A dodgy structure might - there is no room for lesser standards of ability.

 

[cjard]

Just because someone is ignorant of the regs right now doesn't mean they are incapable of learning or following them, designing and carrying out a loft conversion..

Indeed not.

Care to estimate how long it would take for someone who doesn't even know what Building Regulations there are to become genuinely competent to design and build loft conversions by self-learning?

genuinely? I wouldn't care to, because the OP has never directly stated this to be his intent and thus it serves no purpose in this discussion. That it was the OPs desire to singlehandedly complete his own loft conversion was your fabrication. That there was any element of schedule or timeframe was a further fabrication from yourself, pursuant to an unwarranted derisory comment

there is no courtesy in this current seeing things through.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

genuinely? I wouldn't care to, because the OP has never directly stated this to be his intent and thus it serves no purpose in this discussion. That it was the OPs desire to singlehandedly complete his own loft conversion was your fabrication.

Try actually reading:

Hi all i have a property and looking to add some additional room and was thinking i could convert my loft into an extra bedroom, do you know if i need planning permission for this and what building regulations do i need them to meet?

If the OP had decided to use a structural engineer/architect/architectural technician/building company to convert his loft for him, why on earth would he be asking here what Building Regulations he needed to meet?

That there was any element of schedule or timeframe was a further fabrication from yourself, pursuant to an unwarranted derisory comment

I did not make any derisory comments.

 

[munchingB]

hey ive seen a saab mount the pavement and wipe out around 15 people queuing at a bus stop in brixton, so i doubt a collapsed loft would yeald so many casualties....and we're not even talking a the worse case scenario. for someone to fluff up a loft conversation would probably hit the wallet harder than the A&E. your basically talking about strengthening or replacing floor joists-structurally speaking. the span tables are online and it doesnt take 500 years of experience to find and interpret them.

how does anyone learn how to do anything unless they try?

everything the OP needs to know he can find out online or by asking people.

no need to gain a structural engineers qualification for a one off project.

just because someone might be trained and they do this day in, day out doesnt mean that an unqualified person isnt capable of results of the same standard.

 

[wrightwoodwork]

Exactly I do this for a job and even if I get stuck or unsure of something a quick phone call to explain it usually helps I've never known any expert been unwilling to give advice and guidance. A lot of engineers specialize in one part of engineering and even they will ask or look up how it's done on things they don't do a lot

 

[ban-all-sheds]

the span tables are online and it doesnt take 500 years of experience to find and interpret them.

Are you being deliberately obtuse?

It's perfectly reasonable to assume that he wants the loft conversion done reasonably soon - he needs the space now. So given that, someone who doesn't even know what Building Regulations there are, is not going to be able to DIY it.

Simply following tables without a true, genuine, fundamental understanding of how and why is not design, and it is irresponsible to suggest that it's an adequate substitute.

Simply following instructions without truly understanding why is wrong - proper, genuine knowledge and competence is absolutely essential.

how does anyone learn how to do anything unless they try?

You learn first, then you do. Learning how to design and build a loft conversion by trying, and hoping you get everything right, is madness.

everything the OP needs to know he can find out online or by asking people.

He'll only ask about things he happens to realise he doesn't know. It's the "unknown unknowns" problem - things of which he is ignorant because he has no idea they even exist won't get asked about.

He's not returned, and answered an early question, so we don't know - did he not ask about Party Wall Agreements because he knows he doesn't need one, or because he's never heard of them?

no need to gain a structural engineers qualification for a one off project.

Indeed not, but there are no exemptions from the laws of physics (or the Laws of the land) because the project is just a one off, and in the context of the scope of this one off, competance equal to a structural engineer is mandatory.

just because someone might be trained and they do this day in, day out doesnt mean that an unqualified person isnt capable of results of the same standard.

Indeed not.

Unqualified is fine. Incompetent is not.

 

[munchingB]

oh dear... sorry if i upset you mr rocket scientist brain surgeon..

seriously think that youre blowing this job out of proportion..

a structural engineer will learn calcs for building a car park on top of a shopping centre.

converting a loft generally requires the some scribble on the back of a fag pack.

i think youre being a bit anal mate and dont see the point in putting someone off from working on their own home.

it is a DIY sit after all, not pro-anal-builder-rocket surgeonsnot.com

 

[ban-all-sheds]

oh dear... sorry if i upset you mr rocket scientist brain surgeon..

I'm sorry you regard proper competence as something to deride.

seriously think that youre blowing this job out of proportion..

I seriously think that you have a major comprehension problem.

a structural engineer will learn calcs for building a car park on top of a shopping centre.

QED - you are either unable to understand or for some perverse reason are willfully ignoring "in the context of the scope of this [project]..."

converting a loft generally requires the some scribble on the back of a fag pack.

Whatever it requires, it requires it to be done PROPERLY. It requires the person doing it to ACTUALLY UNDERSTAND it.

i think youre being a bit anal mate

I think you're being dangerously irresponsible.

and dont see the point in putting someone off from working on their own home.

Nor, apparently, do you see any point in promoting the idea that whatever someone does in their own home they should know what they are doing. It's as if you really do think that because someone is doing work in their own home that it's OK for them not to be good enough.

it is a DIY sit after all, not pro-anal-builder-rocket surgeonsnot.com

I'm sorry you regard proper competence as something to deride.

 

[munchingB]

for all you know the OP might be a pro builder of 30 years in alaska and not be aware of UK building regs. ...after all, he did ask about building regs-he didnt ask whether you think he is capable or not.

as someone already stated-"I" am going to cut my hair does not mean or imply that i am going to cut it myself, otherwise i would say "I" am going to cut my own hair or i am going to cut my hair myself. it states more commonly that "I" am going to get it done. however i might choose to.

because someone asks a question does not invalidate their ability to carry out the job competently and to ask something on here instead of going to the planning portal might be a little quicker than going through page after page of planning information on the government or local authority websites.

 

[SimonH2]

If he's employing competent professionals to do the work, why does he need to know what Building Regulations apply?

Perhaps he's read some of the sob stories on here and wants some clues what to look for so that some professional bodger doesn't leave him the wrong side of building control ?

as someone already stated-"I" am going to cut my hair does not mean or imply that i am going to cut it myself, otherwise i would say "I" am going to cut my own hair or i am going to cut my hair myself. it states more commonly that "I" am going to get it done. however i might choose to.

Beat me to it, people often say "I am going to …" when what they actually mean is "I am going to get <someone else> to …". It's common English usage, but we can't expect BAS to get that.

 

[SimonH2]

But to the OP. If you were thinking of doing this yourself, then I'd suggest that it's definitely not an ideal project to learn DIY skills on. It's non trivial and there a lot of regs to meet - apart from the practical consideration of not having the house fall down.

That said, it certainly IS doable as a DIY project, but you need to be a fairly experienced DIYer. I would agree with advice often given by BAS, that it's not something you can manage to do by asking random questions on a forum and hoping you've guessed at the right questions to get the information you need rather than the information you think you need.

So it involves structural work, working at height, potentially working on a party wall (that has it's own set of rules/regs), fire safety, plumbing, electrics, insulation, roofing. That's quite a long list of things to be proficient at - and I've probably missed some.
You'll potentially need planning (earlier posts have covered that), and you'll need building regs approval - the building inspector will want more than the back of a fag packet before he'll sign off on your structural works. On the electrics, you'll probably not satisfy him without employing a qualified electrician. And if you try doing it without building regs approval, therein lies a shedload of hurt - if you get caught then you can be forced to put any errors right, if you don't get caught you may find the house unsaleable later.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

for all you know the OP might be a pro builder of 30 years in alaska and not be aware of UK building regs. ...after all, he did ask about building regs-he didnt ask whether you think he is capable or not.

Everyone is entitled to my opinion. And I believe that the advice I gave was apposite and responsible.

as someone already stated-"I" am going to cut my hair does not mean or imply that i am going to cut it myself, otherwise i would say "I" am going to cut my own hair or i am going to cut my hair myself. it states more commonly that "I" am going to get it done. however i might choose to.

Anybody who says "I am going to cut my hair" when what they mean is "I'm off to the barbers" has very poor communication skills.

because someone asks a question does not invalidate their ability to carry out the job competently and to ask something on here instead of going to the planning portal might be a little quicker than going through page after page of planning information on the government or local authority websites.

It might, but not by much, because they would still need to inform themselves of what the legal requirements actually are. It would also be very risky. On the government sites they'll find proper information, the actual laws etc. Here they'll find some clown who tells them that they'll be able to comply with BR 12 by showing LABC some scribble on the back of a fag packet.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

Perhaps he's read some of the sob stories on here and wants some clues what to look for so that some professional bodger doesn't leave him the wrong side of building control ?

Perhaps. But it doesn't look as though everyone here is going to give him useful clues.

Beat me to it, people often say "I am going to …" when what they actually mean is "I am going to get <someone else> to …". It's common English usage, but we can't expect BAS to get that.

What I get is that "common English usage" is often so imprecise as to be at best confusing and inefficient and at worse utterly misleading and incorrect, and that the only way to proceed is on the basis that the writer means exactly what he says, not some interpretation done by the reader.

It really is not any harder for someone to write "I am going to have my loft converted" than "I am going to convert my loft".

 

[SimonH2]

What I get is that "common English usage" is often so imprecise as to be at best confusing and inefficient and at worse utterly misleading and incorrect, and that the only way to proceed is on the basis that the writer means exactly what he says, not some interpretation done by the reader.

And that, IMO, says more about you that it does about anyone else.

I used to work with someone like you - he could be the most arrogant, irritating tosser imaginable when he decided to be pedantic by interpreting everything very literally even when the context suggested the meaning was anything but what he chose to interpret.
EDIT: And when he did it, we all knew that he knew he'd lost the argument. Simply because, it's one of the ways of avoiding having to admit you've lost - divert the discussion away from the original subject with irrelevancies etc.

Common English usage is just that - how people commonly use it. If you can't grasp that, or can't cope with it, then that's your problem - or it should be except that you keep trying to make it everyone else's problem.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

What I get is that "common English usage" is often so imprecise as to be at best confusing and inefficient and at worse utterly misleading and incorrect, and that the only way to proceed is on the basis that the writer means exactly what he says, not some interpretation done by the reader.

And that, IMO, says more about you that it does about anyone else.

I value precision, accuracy, clarity etc. Those attributes can only exist if they are delivered by the speaker/writer, they cannot be conjured into existence by the listener/reader.

I used to work with someone like you - he could be the most arrogant, irritating t****r imaginable when he decided to be pedantic by interpreting everything very literally even when the context suggested the meaning was anything but what he chose to interpret.

There is no context here other than a DIY site where somebody has written ".... was thinking i could convert my loft ...".

As is often pointed out - this is a DIY site, it is for people who are doing things themselves.

It is therefore unreasonable to assume that when someone comes to this site and writes "I want to do XYZ" that they aren't planning to do it themselves and what they actually mean is "I want to get a <tradesman> to do XYZ" etc.

Has anybody in this topic given a reply which assumes that the OP meant that he was getting in builders and other professionals to do the conversion for him? No, they have not. There has been advice given which IMO should not have been, and there is disagreement about whether a DIYer should know what he's doing or not, but not one person has assumed that the OP does not want to DIY his loft conversion.

EDIT: And when he did it, we all knew that he knew he'd lost the argument. Simply because, it's one of the ways of avoiding having to admit you've lost - divert the discussion away from the original subject with irrelevancies etc.

There is no argument here which I have lost, and there are no diversions being used. Like everyone else, I took the OP at his word.

Common English usage is just that - how people commonly use it. If you can't grasp that, or can't cope with it, then that's your problem - or it should be except that you keep trying to make it everyone else's problem.

So why is it not used when it is essential for there to be no ambiguities? Why do publications have glossaries, tables of definitions etc?

I am not making any problems for anyone by acting as if the OP meant what he wrote. Except the OP if he didn't mean what he wrote, and if that turns out to be the case then it will be a useful lesson for him.