dodgy builder, makes a mess, sods off, then asks for payment

[mykp]

Dont know if this constitutes being in this forum but I could do with a bit of advise in the matter.

The Work
To replace a bathroom suite with a new one.

The builder
Chosen and undertook the work but not without problems

Ripped out the old bathroom no problem and then left us for three days with no bathroom, luckily we have a second toilet but that left us with no bath or shower.

The installed the bath, sink and loo but ended up chipping the bath doing other work on the shower (reccessed shower pipes into brick work). So a one day old bath was ruined!

Promised to replace the bath, but never did.

All the time he was there he would leave the room in a massive mess rendering it unuseable until we'd cleaned it.

Left when we complained about the bath.

Work undertaken
Removal of old bathroom.
Plumbing work to bathroom as new suite in different places to old.
Moved soil pipe to alternative location.
Installed Bath, Sink, loo and new pipes for radiator.

Other Problems
When the builder left we had a working shower and bath and taking a shower was fine but the first time we used the bath we ended up with water leaking through the ceiling below and ended up with a flooded kitchen!


Now, we had somebody else in to finish the job and had to claim on our insurance to get the kitchen celing sorted. Numerous phone calls to the builder about the bath brought no joy and questions about insurance brought the comment "What insurance"

So a year has passed and we have a completed bathroom, the bath was replaced and the soil pipes properly sealed.

BUT the original builder has sent us a bill for the work he undertook a little under a year ago (Feb 05) for the full amount of £888, and I am now wondering what to do?

The cost of repairing the ceiling was £200, the cost of a new bath was £325 and the cost of getting the bath replaced was £131.

Would it be civil of me to only pay the outstanding amount, ie: the cost of what he asks for minus what i've had to pay to get it fixed, or do I let him take me to court and let them decide or do I just say I aint gonna pay?

Does anyone know the legal positions on this?

mike

 

[andy]

best speak to a solicitor

 

[Scrit]

Make a reasonable offer for what you think he did do less the additional costs you have incurred. Indicate that you are quite prepared to let him take you through small claims, but ensure that you have evidence BEFORE TALKING TO HIM - signed affitdavits from the tradesmen who sorted out the mess, photographs, receipts and a written chronology of the work done , etc. If he bites and starts procedings, put in a counter claim and lodge the sum you offered with your solicitor - you'll need to send him a copy of the evidence and make sure that the court is aware of the money lodged against the claim. If he isn't insured I doubt that he'll bite.

I've been there with a double glazing company who couldn't read their own drawings - on the day they didn't turn up at court, so the judge awarded costs against them for my travel and a day's loss of income as well as them having to bear all the costs.

Scrit

 

[jbonding]

hes sending you a bill a year later Hes chancing hes arm, tell him to claim on his insurance

 

[mykp]

Cheers for the replies so far.

Scrit have got all the receipts and invoices from the other tradesmen.

Was going to offer him his invoice price minus my costs for sorting things out.

mike

 

[joe-90]

You should have claimed for the cost of the bath in your insurance claim.

He won't 'go legal' at this late stage. Offer him a reasonable rate per hour for the work he did and forget about it. Better still scribble him a cheque and say that is all he is going to get.

I don't expect that he realistically expects you to pay but he may have hit hard times and is grasping at straws (old bills).


joe

 

[mykp]

Joe

I did try to claim for the bath but the insurance assessor said that the damage had been caused by a third party and therefore I should claim against his insurance, which he didnt have! Besides he said he would pay for the bath. Which he didnt!

mike

 

[Moz]

As a bathroom fitter by trade ...
Im sorry to hear you had a bad time with your builder , did you pay ANYTHING up front,materials etc ?

If not then he is legally allowed to get payment for them ,his labour charges NO ....
btw that estimate £888

(OMFG lol ...were his workers polish by chance ,lol)

for the work is that the labour bill, or for the Whole job ,?

if for the whole job/materials etc then its a very low ...cheap an nasty price job
Im afraid you get what you pay for, you pay peanuts you get Monkeys ,lol

 

[Freddie]

 

[Softus]

The installed the bath, sink and loo but ended up chipping the bath doing other work on the shower (reccessed shower pipes into brick work). So a one day old bath was ruined!

Promised to replace the bath, but never did.

If he caused the damage, then he is legally liable for putting it right.

All the time he was there he would leave the room in a massive mess rendering it unuseable until we'd cleaned it.

If you didn't agree any ground rules before he started work, then this area will be too grey for a realistic prospect of financial compensation.

Left when we complained about the bath.

If he didn't complete the job that he was contracted to do, then you must offer him a reasonable chance to complete it; if he fails or declines, only then are you entitled to get someone else to complete it and charge the cost to him.

Work undertaken
Removal of old bathroom.
Plumbing work to bathroom as new suite in different places to old.
Moved soil pipe to alternative location.
Installed Bath, Sink, loo and new pipes for radiator.

Other Problems
When the builder left we had a working shower and bath and taking a shower was fine but the first time we used the bath we ended up with water leaking through the ceiling below and ended up with a flooded kitchen!

You are legally obliged to pay for the completed work done. If it required rectifying afterwards, and you didn't tell him about it, then you are not entirled to claim from him the cost of rectifying it.

Now, we had somebody else in to finish the job and had to claim on our insurance to get the kitchen celing sorted. Numerous phone calls to the builder about the bath brought no joy and questions about insurance brought the comment "What insurance"

You may wish to ask your local Trading Standards Officer what insurance is mandatory, and then report him if he did not comply with the minimum.

So a year has passed and we have a completed bathroom, the bath was replaced and the soil pipes properly sealed.

BUT the original builder has sent us a bill for the work he undertook a little under a year ago (Feb 05) for the full amount of £888, and I am now wondering what to do?

You haven't said what you mean by the word "full" in this context, but he is entitled to charge you for the work he completed, and a court would hold that you must pay. Whether or not you are to be compensated for faults or for shoddy work (or even a poor attitude), is a completely different matter, and you musn't confuse the two.

The cost of repairing the ceiling was £200, the cost of a new bath was £325 and the cost of getting the bath replaced was £131.

You would be well advised to claim on your own insurance for this, and let the insurance company pursue the builder if he was negligant.

Would it be civil of me to only pay the outstanding amount, ie: the cost of what he asks for minus what i've had to pay to get it fixed, or do I let him take me to court and let them decide or do I just say I aint gonna pay?

Forget about being civil - by all means remain polite with him, but don't let your manners guide your decisions.

Does anyone know the legal positions on this?

In practise, if he sued you for the payment, then you would make a counter-claim for compensation, and the court would decide on a fair compromise.

Pragmatically, you can make the builder an offer, pointing out that you are reducing your payment to him by an amount that you would otherwise seek to recover at court. It is up to him whether or not he accepts your offer, but his alternative is to call your bluff and go to court.

As andy pointed out, a solicitor will give you a qualified opinon on this, but you could do worse than consult the CAB, which would cost you nothing.

 

[mykp]

If not then he is legally allowed to get payment for them ,his labour charges NO ....
btw that estimate £888

(OMFG lol ...were his workers polish by chance ,lol)

Moz,

I bought the original bathroom, as I originally had another person lined up to do the job but due to injury he was unable to turn up. The monies he is asking for break down as £750 for labour and £138 for materials, for things like the plumbing supplies etc..

mike

 

[joe-90]

I don't think that he needs a solicitor or CAB - Softus's post has covered the lot.

Good post - if it grieves me to say so.


joe

 

[Softus]

Do not make him any offer at all, just write down what you had endured and what it had cost you include all expenses including phone calls.

Certainly write everything down, but not making an offer will do nothing to resolve the situation.

...any solicitor will tell him he has not even a dogs chance of recieving a penny from you, especially when they give him his first consultancy bill probably around £200

This is misinformation. The builder probably won't know it, but he's entitled to recover from you the full cost of the work that he completed.

 

[Softus]

Good post - if it grieves me to say so.

Careful Joe - much more of that and we could be heading for a truce!

 

[Freddie]

Yes Softus but for less than £900 how much chance has he got to get a penny especially after a counter claim