Dodgy electrical certificate - what to do?

[lilith]

Help!
Recently moved into house with recent (2 years ago) extension on back, have building regs certificate for it. Got electrician in to sort out some minor jobs and he discovered multiple badness including old cloth covered wires in fuse box, an unearthed socket, most of original house on one overloaded fuse, bits missing in fuse box and that water and gas pipes not earthed. He couldn't understand how this got building regs certificate. Do I report this to building control? Will I need to foot the bill to put it right or does the seller (who did the extension) have any obligation to do so? Grateful for your thoughts/experiences....

 

[studips]

Surely you've got whoever signed it off by the short and curlies?

the seller can likely claim he paid for a rewire and is as shocked as you are....

 

[ericmark]

Certificates can be limited to work done so if an extension is built the completion certificate will only refer to the extension not the rest of the house. As will the installation certificate.

However when you moved in a periodic inspection report should have been carried out unless you waved the requirement. Where people want the house it is common not to bother getting the PIR done before buying and it is often done after. With a rewire costing about £3000 compared with total price of the house it is a small proportion of total cost.

There is nothing wrong with cloth covered wiring. Only where it has started to degrade is there a problem. British rail used a impregnated cloth covered wiring designed to kill any rats that tried to eat it and it where not attacked by rats is as good today as when fitted.

As to overloaded fuses. Well they are designed so that if overloaded they fail safe. i.e. they blow. So that's not a problem unless they blow. Overloaded cables are a problem but not overloaded fuses.

So what would you report to building control? If the new electrics in the extension are not to regulations in force at the time of design then yes they may do something. But if old system is not to standard then not really anything to do with them if installed before 2004.

If the new bit is sub-standard the first step is to inform the person who did the work. Second is to complain to his scheme provider and only when that fails are building control interested.

If it was not done under a scheme but direct under LABC then what do you really think they will do? Do you think the LABC will take themselves to court for permitting sub-standard work to be completed? The only local authority people who ever seem to be called to task for not doing their job is child protection. The rest are a law unto them selves.

When my parents needed a new kitchen a sub main was installed so that the electrician did not have any responsibility for rest of the house. However water and gas pipes as they enter the property are something one would expect to be checked as would the main earth. However all the other bonding away from what they have done would not interest them.

The person who should have either advised you the PIR should be completed with change of occupant is your solicitor. If he did not tell you that it should be completed then he has made an error. But likely he did advise you and likely as I said he would point out how delaying while this is completed could cost you money and it could be done after you move in.

So likely you will have to pay to get items corrected. The missing earth on a socket is serous and does need correcting ASAP. However any PIR will have loads non compliance noted as the regulations were upgraded in 2008 but these items may not be dangerous but are noted as it will restrict your ability to add to the system.

All new sockets have to be RCD protected so noticing that there is no RCD in the consumer unit will make you aware to add sockets will be expensive. But it does not mean the existing sockets are dangerous.

The problem that electricians face is once we work on something we become responsible for it. So we can't energise something that does not comply. However neither can we turn off the power in a domestic property if in doing so the property would be uninhabitable as a result unless we arrange for alternative accommodation. So if we see as you put it dodgy work, likely we will walk away and not touch it unless the owner is prepared to get it corrected.

This means the owner likely has two options. All or nothing. Often we feel that to refuse for example to change a consumer unit from the old fuse to new MCB with RCD is wrong as even if the rest of house is not up to standard this change will still make it safer. So you will get different electricians who are willing to do different amounts of minimum work.

 

[RossR]

water and gas pipes not earthed

That's the only bit that sticks out as something that should have been sorted when the extension was wired. No work should be done without checking the earthing and bonding. There should be a tick box on the electrical certificate to say this has been checked and is satisfactory. It is possible that this was correct 2 years ago, but the bonding has since been removed by someone.

Everything else would only apply to the new work in the extension.

 

[lilith]

Thank you for your comments.

Solicitor did not specifically advise PIR, but no doubt has it covered somewhere in the small print.

The purchase happened in a hurry under a lot of pressure, and in hindsight looks like I put too much faith in the existence of the completion certificate for the extension. When did own kitchen extension at old place building control were incredibly thorough, so I guess I assumed that was normal. (There were more issues with new wiring that I didn't list in original post.)

This is also latest in long list of discoveries that much of the work on what was supposedly a 'recently renovated' property looks ok on the surface but not so great when look a little closer - most of which I can laugh about and isn't serious. When it comes to what looks like compromise on electrical safety I tend to lose my sense of humour though.

Interesting to hear about difficult 'all or nothing' position electricians are put in - was not aware of this. Respect to all of you out there doing the job properly.

So looks like next step to get that full inspection carried out and bite the bullet to get it safe and sorted.

Thank you again for your feedback.