Does the bath REALLY need to be in first?

[Albumen]

If I have the bath here. And I can offer it up to the wall and mark exactly where it's going to go. And it's got four adjustable feet so I can raise or lower it a mill or to if I need to.

The advice is to leave 2 or 3 mm for the silicone.

Is there any reason I can't mark the wall, fix a batten ad tile to that. It's a steel bath, so not much movement. I can get it right up against the wall, cut one tile the right size, mark the bottom of that and use that as the batten height.

The bath is very straight. I've got one of those laser levels so can transfer the line round the walls ok, and if I'm a fraction out I can adjust the height of the bath.

Can anybody see a down side? The only thing I see is that the tile adhesive wont' go all the way down to the bath. But isn't that what the silicone's for, after all.

Why to I want to do this? Ease of working, not getting adhesive + grout on the bath and it makes some of the other workflow better.

Cheers

 

[PrenticeBoyofDerry]

There is no reason why you can't do it as you have explained.
I would normally cut a chase in to the plaster, so the bath fits in to it, then apply silicone to seal it, prior to last tile being fitted.

 

[Richard C]

It’s all very well fitting the bath, marking the wall & tiling to that but things have a habit of not going back exactly where they were. Fitting the bath first is just the way it’s usually done & avoids having to set it all up twice; it allows it to be accurately positioned, settle down onto the floor (fill it up with water) & avoids any risk of errors. I leave the protective film on (where there is one) & cover it all up with a couple of thick winceyette sheets; you shouldn’t be making that much mess with adhesive & grout anyway! Personally I would fit the bath first but if you are confident you can make it work then go for it.

 

[Albumen]

Thanks.

I've actually already done what I understand to be the 'standard' way. That is, a put battens onto the wall 170 mm above where the top of the bath will be (the tiles are 200 mm).

I know some people say to silicone the bath in before tiling the last course. I'm in two minds. Obviously it's a second line of defence, but if the outer line of silicone is leaking, I'd rather know about it. The wall is tanked, so nothings going to soak into he substrate (I'm now thinking tanking was mistake).

But the tanking is the reason I don't really want to chop in, quite apart from the mess.

Doing it my way means my only line of defence is the silicone. Unless I actually blather adhesive (or silicone) all over the wall immediately before fitting the bath and fix it up to that.

Oh yes, I read somewhere to grout AFTER the silicone. Surely not?

 

[Albumen]

Thanks Richard.

I'm reasonably confident I can be accurate.

It's a real heavy dute Bette steel bath. The legs are substantial steel things (they even give a torque setting for the nuts on them!!). I've tried to bend the side and can't, so I'm not sure I'll bother with a batten. The proper fixings that I paid an extra £30 for (which are up to German sound insulation properties apparently - whatever the point of that is, have you ever had anybody complain about a noisy bath?) are substantial and adjustable for height, in a really clever way.

I was going to put the legs on 4 x 2 or something, but it's just happenned that all 4 legs are almost precisely above floor joists, so there shouldn't be any movement due to flexing floorboards. And it's being fixed to brick walls.

I may well try drilling all the fixing holes and loose fixing it, just to make sure everything will work.

 

[Richard C]

I've actually already done what I understand to be the 'standard' way. That is, a put battens onto the wall 170 mm above where the top of the bath will be (the tiles are 200 mm).

So are you now going to tile the upper wall, fit the bath & then tile the last row?

I know some people say to silicone the bath in before tiling the last course. I'm in two minds.

I don’t. Smothering everything in silicone can create more probs than it cures; be confident that a well applied, quality Silicone bead will provide a perfectly good seal.

The wall is tanked, so nothings going to soak into he substrate (I'm now thinking tanking was mistake).

What is the substrate?

But the tanking is the reason I don't really want to chop in, quite apart from the mess.

Again I don’t.

Doing it my way means my only line of defence is the silicone. Unless I actually blather adhesive (or silicone) all over the wall immediately before fitting the bath and fix it up to that.

You don’t want to be dong that, not much sticks to silicone including tile adhesive/grout.

Oh yes, I read somewhere to grout AFTER the silicone. Surely not?

Never done that & can’t see the reasoning behind it; again, grout wont stick to silicone!

 

[Albumen]

Thanks Richard.

I've already tiled the wall, apart from the last course above the bath, and the final rows up each side, as they have to go on at the same time as the tile edging, which is coming down onto the bath.

Substrate = whatever's behind the tiles. Sand and cement in this case.

Thanks for advice on silicone.

 

[Richard C]

Substrate = whatever's behind the tiles.

I know that.

Sand and cement in this case.

That’s the bit I was interested in.

I wouldn't normally tank a screed or plaster over screed finish behind a bath but it wont do any harm.

 

[Albumen]

Sorry, I misunderstood, thinking you didn't know the meaning of the word substrate.

Yes, I wish I hadn't bothered tanking now. It's an overbath shower. But I rendered it, with waterproofer added, so that any water that does get through won't damage it, in the same way that plaster is damaged by water. And in a way, when the grout deteriorates, in a few years, and small amounts of water get through, it might be better if it could just soak away into the render (where I don't suppose it would do a lot of damage), rather than being trapped and soaking into the tile adhesive (bal 1 part rapidset) or the back of the tiles. Plus the tanking wasn't cheap and took me time.

Either way, bricks, rendered, new tiles and grout, all done with good water resistant adhesive, flexible additive to the grout etc. I shouldn't really get much water getting as far as the render.