Double Murder

[Bahco]

this is a very sad story and only a mile from my house.

Such a shame that such an old couple have been targeted and robbed of life,

I think that we all should look at our personal security again as it could be any one of us next.
What would/ could you do if someone broke into your house and confronted you

Am thinking of 2 baseball bats in a handy but hidden location and also a personal attack alarm by the front door.

Any other ideas on keeping our families safe

 

[conny]

Haven't read the story yet but regarding the personal attack button, it is a good idea to also have one on either side of your bed. No good having just the one by the front door if you don't have access to it. If your children are old enough, i.e. teenagers, and you can trust them not to set them off for fun, it may be an idea to fit them in their bedrooms also.
The best defence obviously is a secure system including window locks that get used and door chains that are put on before opening the door. A lot of people now have door area cctv installed.

Having read the story it reaffirms my belief that we are too soft in this country. If anyone is caught they may get a life sentence but this will probably be 6-8 years realistically.

If someone broke in while I was at home? Hard question in reality. Instinct is to say defend it at all costs but my family and their safety would be paramount. No material possessions are worth them getting hurt for so I would like to think I would stay calm and just remember as much about them as possible to help any investigation. Maybe afterwards try to exact revenge on a one to one basis but that is just a thought.

 

[htgeng]

If anyone is caught they may get a life sentence but this will probably be 6-8 years realistically.

Indeed in America murder actually means life or lethal injection.
The 16 yr old who is alleged to have killed those two british tourists is looking at spending the rest of his natural life behind bars. In this country he would be free by 30 and be coddled by benefits for the rest of his life.

Not often we can say they do something right over there...

 

[wreckedit]

Bahco, hiding baseball bats in cupboards and maybe you don't even play the game can get you in a very sticky position if you used successfully.
Always be aware that the only physical retaliation you can use is restraint otherwise you'll get dragged through the courts like a criminal.
Try these if you are really worried.

1. Always ID a strange person at the door without opening it. I have a clear glass locked front porch and if I don't know somebody then it stays that way.
2. Get a telephone dialler alarm for £30-£40 and fit it. I have installed several of these for old folk.
3. Fit a very loud alarm that wakes the neighbours up. Criminals hate these when they go off.
4. Put squeezy bottles of dilute ammonia about the place so if you get the opportunity to use them you can temporarily blind somebody. It is not a lethal weapon so can be used with impunity. It also acts like a marker if they leave.
5. Contact you local Crimes Police Officer for advice.

There are, if you think about it, several things your family can do but most don't bother. I am always asking my old friend what she does to keep her safe but I don't think I'm getting her to check the person at the door every time before opening it. I just hope a problem never happens TBH.

 

[Bahco]

Thanks for replys.

Can you get a door chain for plastic doors

 

[Whitespirit66]

Indeed in America murder actually means life or lethal injection.
The 16 yr old who is alleged to have killed those two british tourists is looking at spending the rest of his natural life behind bars. In this country he would be free by 30 and be coddled by benefits for the rest of his life.

Not often we can say they do something right over there...

Yes, obviously capital punishment and whole-life sentences in the States doesn't always deter the crime. The levels of violent crime in certain parts bear this out.

However, it must be a big comfort to the victims and their families that the perpetrators will actually get a punishment that fits the crime.

When capital punishment was abolished in The UK, the public were told that life sentences would mean life. Over the years, this has been whittled down to only a few years in some cases. Yet another politicians promise broken again.

 

[conny]

By plastic I assume you mean a double glazed door?
Best place to ask would be either a reputable DIY outlet, (not B&Q/Homebase etc), or better still a D/G manufacturer or your Insurance company. Also, as wreckedit said, contact your local CPO, I'm sure they would be able to advise you on this one.
One last point, as wreckedit also said,

'the only physical retaliation you can use is restraint otherwise you'll get dragged through the courts like a criminal.'

is not strictly true. You may use 'reasonable or equal force to apprehend, restrain or disarm an intruder inside your property'.
This means if he has a sword/machette/gun you would be entitled to use equal measures to achieve the above but you could not injure him unless he has injured you and then your actions must be in self defence as he was attacking you.
The other important thing to note is that he MUST be INSIDE your property not on the path/driveway or the street. You are not allowed to chase him down the road wielding a weapon but you can chase him if you are empty handed.
(Advice given to my daughters neighbour about 2 years ago by the local CPO)

 

[Norcon]

What would/ could you do if someone broke into your house and confronted you

I'd offer them a cup of tea and show them where the valuables are.

My next door neighbour, his wife and daughter fought off four men who broke into their home just before Christmas. They had a gun and a shot was fired but some how they managed to fend them off.

Four local guys were apprehended and I know all their names. I think they may now be released.

If you kill a burgular on your property the best option is to dig a hole in the garden and bury him there as the authorities will be anything but symphatetic about your plight and it rules out getting your home burned down.

If a man is causing a problem, you should merely "remove" the man and the problem will be solved" -

Joseph Stalin (Politician)

 

[Bahco]

I hope this thread will make all viewers more aware that it could happen to any of us and a little thought or action now may pay dividends in the future.

 

[r.bartlett]

It is pretty 'easy' to get away with murder if you have burglers.

1 Get a shot gun license
2 Keep it handy
3 make sure you shoot them at close range in their front. (not their backs which is where Tony Martin went wrong if you like...)
4 Put a shot into the ceiling (either before or more likely after no/3)
5 make sure they are dead

that way you are legally entitled to carry a gun.
You fired a 'warning' shot into the ceiling but they still 'came at you.'

Reasonable force : No court will convict you as it's a straight case of self defence.

 

[conny]

According to teletext they have charged 3 men with these horrific murders.
Hopefully a quick trial, guilty verdicts and a life sentence that means life for these scumbags!

 

[Mickymoody]

I think most people in the above situation, would have come to the same end, it doesn't fit the usual mo. For a gang, to murder and steal is out of the extra-ordinary, as you want to get rid of evidence, not store it or fence it, as you are digging your own hole.

A few quid, a couple of TV's, and a car dumped, all evidence; must be a young student grandson related to the couple, with a couple of mates, desperate for cash? Not a professional setup, and not privvy to how UK cogs work, maybe policing is slower in their own country?

Just a theory.

I used to live in a really rough area of town, someone broke into my flat one night, who had a previous tennants key, just let himself in, in the middle of the night! Was uber security concious, but moved away, and you leave windows open, doors unlocked, thinking not me, but, a few years ago, I was driving through an area, and saw some of the gangs from the rough part of town where I had lived, trying doors on cars, and checking out houses, so re-assess your security, think, if I had the opportunity, what looks good to break in? Plasma TV on show? keys on hall table? Lights off when away, curtains shut in the day when away?