Downstairs cloakroom - urgent lighting questions

[PollyW]

Hi,
We are going to install a toilet and sink into our utility room, which already has a sink. I have been given mixed messages from builders and hope someone here can give me the correct answers.
1. Do we need to apply for permission? - cloakroom only, no shower or bath.
2. At present the light switch is inside the room, on the opposite wall to where the current sink is. Do we need to have the switch out outside the room? It is more than 30cm from the sink.
3. There is at present an extractor fan which is turned on by a switch, but this is not connected to the light switch. Does it need to be?
There is an outside door but no window.

I am hoping that we do not need to change the lighting or connection to the fan as it is only a cloakroom. It would be great to have confirmation of this before I tell the builder he does not need to charge me for an electrician to change the light!

Thanks, Catherine

 

[ricicle]

No you don't need 'permission' but all electrical work must still comply with Part P of the Building Regs. The switch is fine if you are happy with it's position.

The fan ideally needs to come on with the light and overrun as there is no window but I can't see it being a problem if I'm honest.

Toilets/cloakrooms alone do not come under the guise of bath/shower rooms.

 

[PollyW]

Hi,

Thanks for the speedy reply. The position of the switch is fine as it is just inside the door. Good news about not having to move it. As far as I can see, we won't need to do anything electrical if we don't have to move the switch or have it connected to the fan. So much for the builder who told me I had to have it moved and had to apply for permission - who is also the husband of a vague friend!

 

[ban-all-sheds]

1. Do we need to apply for permission?

Not for the electrical work, but you do for the WC (or make sure the installer of it is able to self-certify compliance with the Building Regulations).

And you will need it (no self-certification option) if there's any underground drainage work involved.

 

[PollyW]

I will ask the plumber is he can self-certify compliance with the Building Regulations, although I do not really know what this means. Do I just take his word for it if he says yes, or should he have a certificate to give or show me?

There will be no underground drainage as the pipe will go into the pipe which comes down from the toilet upstairs which is right next to where the new downstairs toilet will be.

I cannot tell you how much I appreciate having such prompt, clear and knowledgeable advice. I am not knowledgeable in such matters and only discovered this site yesterday.

For our new cloakroom we are converting a utility room, and putting up a new stud wall to make it a but bigger. To do the job, we are trying to choose between a building company with a solid reputation and a carpenter who also erects stud walls, who I sense is branching out taking bigger jobs, and supplies a plumber and plasterer he already works with. The first works out at about £800 more expensive as we have to pay VAT with them but not with the second. I expect you all think we should go with the building company - but for various reasons we are finding the individual chap easier to work with. Any thoughts welcome?
Thanks.

 

[JohnW2]

For our new cloakroom we are converting a utility room, and putting up a new stud wall to make it a but bigger. To do the job, we are trying to choose between a building company with a solid reputation and a carpenter who also erects stud walls ...

If the result is 'to make it a bit bigger', I presume that there must be walls coming down as well as the new stud wall being put up - and it's with the former (knocking down walls) that you need a competent builder (or building company), and the relevant permissions, to be sure that the rest of the house does not come down with the wall!

Kind Regards, John.

 

[PollyW]

Hi,

actually no walls are coming down - we are just extending the room by taking the door out, putting up a new wall about a metre away into the hall, and putting the old door in there, so there will be a sort of arch leading into the room. The old wall, which is the main wall of the original house, is not only pretty important but will also serve quite well, providing a barrier between the toilet and where we plan to hang washing.

So hopefully, we can still use the separate stud wall builder, plumber and plasterer.

All comments most welcome.
Catherine

 

[PrenticeBoyofDerry]

Hi,

1. Do we need to apply for permission? - cloakroom only, no shower or bath.

Depends, When installing a new WC that involves new waste pipes or underground drainage, a building application will be required.

2. At present the light switch is inside the room, on the opposite wall to where the current sink is. Do we need to have the switch out outside the room? It is more than 30cm from the sink.

It's a basin not a sink and common sense must prevail, as there are no requirements that states the switch cannot be in this location. if the switch is in environment where it will not get splashed by water, then that's fine.

3. There is at present an extractor fan which is turned on by a switch, but this is not connected to the light switch. Does it need to be?
There is an outside door but no window.

As there is no window, mechanical extraction will be required, as far as coming on when the light does, if you are in a position to do this it would be a logical step, but not a requirement.

 

[JohnW2]

3. There is at present an extractor fan which is turned on by a switch, but this is not connected to the light switch. Does it need to be? There is an outside door but no window.

As there is no window, mechanical extraction will be required ...

Is that actually true? In terms of the Building Regs, I thought that Part F only required mechanical ventilation if there were not adequate areas of "openable windows" and/or "openable external doors (neither which, of course, may ever actually be opened!) - and Catherine has told us that there is an external door.

Kind Regards, John.

 

[PrenticeBoyofDerry]

and Catherine has told us that there is an external door.

Apologise, your correct John and well pointed out. I seemed to have missed the external door being mentioned by the OP.

 

[JohnW2]

and Catherine has told us that there is an external door.

Apologise, your correct John and well pointed out. I seemed to have missed the external door being mentioned by the OP.

No problem. I actually meant to add that, despite thee regs not requiring it, if it were my house I would almost certainly want mechanical ventilation in a downstairs loo, even if it did had an 'external door' (as the only 'natural ventilation') - since I rather doubt that door would often be open!

Kind Regards, John

 

[PollyW]

I am so touched by all your helpful comments.

It does seem that all can be left. But as someone said, it would actually be good if the fan switch could be connected to the light switch. Is anyone able to tell me roughly how much an electrician might charge to do this? The fan is on the ceiling about 2 metres from the light switch, but there is no access to the space above the ceiling (complicated reasons I won't bore you with, but it would mean coming through the roof of the house!).

Have not heard yet from the plumber (who has arranged by the carpenter!) Hopefully will hear soon and then we can decide whether to use him or not.

In the mean time, off for four days camping and hoping for dry weather!
Catherine

 

[securespark]

Where are you camping?

 

[PollyW]

Sussex - at a festival. Should be great, apart from being concerned about a 12 year old who does not want to come!

 

[PrenticeBoyofDerry]

But as someone said, it would actually be good if the fan switch could be connected to the light switch. Is anyone able to tell me roughly how much an electrician might charge to do this? The fan is on the ceiling about 2 metres from the light switch, but there is no access to the space above the ceiling (complicated reasons I won't bore you with, but it would mean coming through the roof of the house!).

If you have no access to install cables in ceiling void it is going to very difficult, unless you are happy having trunking around the room.
As you will ideally need three core and earth cable routing between fan and fan isolator (normally mounted external of the room) and three core and earth between isolator and light.
Without boring us/me too much, why is it complicated procedure to break in to the ceiling?
Also do you know what cables are at the existing fan and the switch/isolator?