Duel fuel range electric requirements - please help

[sushik]

Hi,

We have had a new kitchen extension done and put in completely new electrical wiring. However a kitchen company came out a couple of days ago and said that they think we might have laid down the wrong wire for the duel fuel range cooker. This has put me in a real panic as the floor has all now been laid down and walls plastered!

He said that a DFT range usually requires its own dedicated electrical feed from the consumer box. However I am looking at the specification of the range we are likely to go for and I cant figure out whether a dedicated feed would be required. This is the likely product http://www.stoves.co.uk/Range-Cookers/Sterling-900DFT/ (if you goto 'specification' it mentions a bit about electrical requirements)

I have just spoke to my electrician who was not very clear, or helpful to be honest. However he did say that the new wiring is 32A, which seems as if it might be OK for this cooker, even though it doesnt have its own dedicated feed.

Is anyone able to please offer me any advice on this? Do you think what we have installed seems sufficient? I am obviously looking to avoid ripping up the floor boards at this stage!


Many thanks!

 

[riveralt]

Looking at the specifications it states that the electrical supply should be on a 32A circuit - that would be a 32A dedicated circuit and not part of a ring final circuit.
If the new dedicated cooker circuit was installed then there should be a cooker switch on the wall somewhere to isolate the cooker from the circuit and a dedicated MCB/RCD/RCBO at the Consumer Unit.

Furthermore, your electrician should have left you with an Electrical Installation Certificate etc and this will detail what new circuits he has installed.

 

[Taylortwocities]

The total load for all three "cavities" is 7.2KW if all are in use at the same time.

It needs a dedicated feed of its own and 32amp would be what you need. This is NOT suitable for plugging in to a 13amp socket!

Please advise if you have a dedicated circuit in the kitchen and on the consumer unit marked as "COOKER". If so, what is the current rating of the MCB?

 

[sushik]

Thanks.

There is no dedicated isolator circuit. I get the impression you are saying ultimately there has to be a dedicated feed for this range cooker from the consumer box? If this is the case, i will now need to figure out how i can make that happen, with the floor all laid down!

 

[sushik]

As far as I am aware, there have been two new feeds put into the kitchen from the consumer box. One is for the lights and one is for the sockets. There is not a dedicated feed from the consumer box, which says cooker.

 

[ericmark]

It clearly states a 32A supply is required and that is the standard supply for any electric cooker although with a ring we do have a 32A supply the drawing of more than 2000W (8.7A) for an extended time requires a dedicated supply and is not taken from the ring. It is common to include a socket on the cooker isolator but not taking the cooker supply from normal ring or radial supply.

It would seem rather odd for an electrician not to install a 32A dedicated supply for a cooker unless you asked for it not to be included. Some people do seem to like gas. Personally I don't think gas is an option in my kitchen it produces too much moisture when it burns meaning one has to also have large extractor fans running to remove the combustion products. The cooker is on wrong wall to easy pipe out.

It is common to where gas is used to use the electric cooker supply to run extractors the load of an extractor is not enough to worry about being taken from the same supply as cooker with a suitable fused connection unit.

Because we use electric induction we are able to have a wall cupboard where the hood would be with gas giving more storage also we can run a tumble drier in the same room with extractor pipe needs to be condenser type with gas or it will draw fumes into the room rather than going into hood.

I mention this as if you have not told the kitchen fitters you have both gas and electric they may have missed items out or put cupboards too close.

 

[Taylortwocities]

Thanks.

There is no dedicated isolator circuit. I get the impression you are saying ultimately there has to be a dedicated feed for this range cooker from the consumer box? If this is the case, i will now need to figure out how i can make that happen, with the floor all laid down!

When you were planning the kitchen, did you not provide the electrician with a kitchen plan that included the type and model of the cooker, and other, appliances that would be fitted?

 

[ericmark]

Sorry missed your last post. With my mothers kitchen so as not to have to run cables through the house a SWA cable was run around the outside of the house can that method be used with you?

The other option is to use the ring that normally feeds rest of house releasing the dedicated kitchen feed for the cooker.

You clearly need to talk to your electricians and find out your options. Many kitchens have washing machine, tumble drier, dish washer as well as kettle off the socket supply clearly this needs a kitchen dedicated supply. But where washing machine and tumble drier are in a utility room then kitchen load is not that high. Your electrician should advise you although can't understand why he didn't fit a 32A supply for cooker anyway!

 

[sushik]

I probably messed up im afraid and maybe could have been clearer, but I guess I just didnt realise.

I showed him the plan for the kitchen, and I showed him the specification of the cooker from the same website link above, and he priced me/fitted based on that, as far as I was aware. Thing is I cant remember the exact conversation we had further to the me showing him teh above...he is saying that I said it was gas only, but i dont recall saying that, as until this weekend i didnt really know the exact difference between gas only and duel fuel...I may have said yes there is gas as i know duel fuel is gas and electric! (yes, i know this may sound silly)

 

[ericmark]

I have in the past mixed up duel fuel and multi fuel the latter is normally solid fuel however to wire a kitchen without allowing for the cooker type to be changed from gas to electric does seem penny pinching.

Today the saying "Cooking with Gas" has become rather redundant with electric hobs being now faster than gas, but you can't get a usable electric wok. So using a wok there is no option but to use gas.

However many of the duel fuel cookers will work on a 16A supply as it only feeds the oven but it would still be a dedicated supply it would not connect to the kitchen ring.

The problem is if the supply fails although in theory it will fail safe losing the cooling fans in the oven can over heat cupboards against the cooker and with such large ovens the stored heat will be quite high. This is why you should never turn off the electric supply to an oven as the cooling fans will often continue to cycle on and off for some time after cooking is complete.

 

[sushik]

Thanks again. I understand your point and will speak to the electrician to see what options we have. Perhaps a supply routed partly from teh outside may work. Lets see.

Completely valid point about being able to change from gas to electric if required..i can assure you it wasnt penny pinching on my part, I guess i just didnt realise all the dynamics involved and this is where i would have hoped the electrician woudl have offered me a bit of advice!

Ahh well, i guess it is what it is, all i can do is figure out a way to remedy it.

 

[riveralt]

In planning your solution remember that cable doesn't have to be buried it can be clipped at the bottom of your kitchen cupboards and run around the edge of your wall or hidden behind trunking.

 

[PrenticeBoyofDerry]

If there is a gas supply at the location of the cooker another option would be to go for gas, instead of electric.
Not read all the posts, so forgive me if this as an option has been mentioned or is not possible.

 

[sushik]

Thanks again to everyone. Very helpful advice. I am sure I will be able to figure something out now further to the above.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

I showed him the plan for the kitchen, and I showed him the specification of the cooker from the same website link above, and he priced me/fitted based on that, as far as I was aware.

That is not a gas-only cooker - it clearly says it's dual fuel, and that'll be what 'DF' in the model name means.

So if that was what you told him you were having then he failed to do his job properly by not installing a supply from it, and it is down to him to come and put that right, including the cost of making good any walls/floors etc.

You need to start flatly denying telling him that it was gas only, and asking him why you would have said that, and why he would have thought that, when you had given him the specs for a dual-fuel cooker.