Earth Bonding for Gas Plastic Entry Pipe

[amka]

My semi was build in 1964 and I've lived at this address since the mid 90s. No major work has been done since moving in.
In April, British Gas removed the copper entry pipe and replaced it with a plastic pipe (the whole street was done). The yellow/green earthing wires are now no longer there.
I distinctly remember green and yellow wires with silver clamps on the old pipe. The gas meter's in a very small cupboard under the stairs and all I remember is that the wires disappeared behind the meter.
I got them to check it today and they say that as it's now plastic, the earthing isn't required. They think that because it's a 60s house, the wire probably went into a metal spike in the ground and not into the meter. (That's how I remember it as well - no wire going into the fuse box from the gas meter or gas pipe).
I looked under the floorboards and I can see about 75cm of yellow/green wire just sitting in the rubble.

(1)Couldn't they have just taken the clips off the old copper entry pipe and placed them on the copper internal gas pipes instead?

(2)They said that I should get an electrician and bond the wires from the internal gas pipe to the fuse box. Doesn't that spike in the ground
thing work any more?

Hope someone can help

 

[RF Lighting]

Can you post a few photos of ypur gas meter, the supply pipe to it, where the gas pipe actually enters into your house, and of your electricity supply.

 

[JohnW2]

In April, British Gas removed the copper entry pipe and replaced it with a plastic pipe (the whole street was done). The yellow/green earthing wires are now no longer there.

I suppose you must be sure - but, although plastic gas pipe outside of the property are becoming very common, I thought that it was still forbidden by regulations for any gas pipework within a domestic property to be plastic (for fairly obvious, fire-related, reasons).

I(1)Couldn't they have just taken the clips off the old copper entry pipe and placed them on the copper internal gas pipes instead?
(2)They said that I should get an electrician and bond the wires from the internal gas pipe to the fuse box. Doesn't that spike in the ground
thing work any more?

If it really is true that the gas enters your house in plastic, there is no requirement for the internal metal gas pipework to be bonded. However, as has been said, some piccies might be helpful.

Kind Regards, John

 

[kbdiy]

Confirmed by my brother-in-law who worked on gas services for years, no plastic internally, must be metal as above for fire risk. However the pipe may be sleeved yellow for identification purposes, hence possible confusion.

 

[JohnW2]

Confirmed by my brother-in-law who worked on gas services for years, no plastic internally, must be metal as above for fire risk. However the pipe may be sleeved yellow for identification purposes, hence possible confusion.

Thanks (and thanks to your BIL!). That obviously corresponds to what I thought. If that's what the OP has, the ideal solution (electrically-speaking) would be to remove some of the sleeving around the (metal) pipe entering the house and connect the bonding cable to that. If that is impossible (or the OP doesn't want to do it), the next-best-thing would to be bond to the consumer's metal pipework as close to the meter as possible.

Kind Regards, John

 

[ban-all-sheds]

If that's what the OP has, the ideal solution (electrically-speaking) would be to remove some of the sleeving around the (metal) pipe entering the house and connect the bonding cable to that.

Unless the plastic jacket is stopping the pipe from being an extraneous-conductive-part.

If that is impossible (or the OP doesn't want to do it), the next-best-thing would to be bond to the consumer's metal pipework as close to the meter as possible.

Assuming it needs bonding.

 

[JohnW2]

Unless the plastic jacket is stopping the pipe from being an extraneous-conductive-part.

If it's a metal meter (or, at least, a meter with electrical continuity from inlet to outlet unions), then there are extraneous-c-p-s afoot even if the pipe upstream of the meter is insulated. However, we obviously don't know precisely what we are dealing with.

Assuming it needs bonding.

Indeed - but, as above, even if the pipe upstream of the meter is electrically insulated, that does not, in itself, necessarily mean than bonding is not required.

Kind Regards, John

 

[ban-all-sheds]

If the pipe upstream of the meter is insulated what makes the meter and the downstream pipework e-c-ps?

 

[bernardgreen]

If the pipe upstream of the meter is insulated what makes the meter and the downstream pipework e-c-ps?

Regulations..........

they consider it possible that the gas supply company may replace the plastic service with metal.....

or someone connects an earth rod to the gas meter.

or in the case of a semi concealed box flood water connects the meter to ground

Must keep that nasty extraneous ground potential out of the building.

( some sarcasm was used in this posting )

 

[JohnW2]

If the pipe upstream of the meter is insulated what makes the meter and the downstream pipework e-c-ps?

You surely didn't mean/need to ask that? The fact that the upstream pipe may be externally insulated to stop people touching metal obviously does not mean that it is not able to 'introduce a potential' to anything with which it is metal-to-metal coupled!

Kind Regards, John

 

[JohnW2]

If the pipe upstream of the meter is insulated what makes the meter and the downstream pipework e-c-ps?

Regulations.......... they consider it possible that the gas supply company may replace the plastic service with metal.....

Apart from the fact that they seemingly aren't allowed to bring a plastic service into the building, BAS was talking about a metal service pipe which was externally covered by insulation - but, as I've just written, that doesn't mean that the metal beneath the insulation can't conduct!!

or someone connects an earth rod to the gas meter.

That is, IMO, rather silly. 'Someone' could connect an earth rod to anything, but it would be crazy to use that a reason for regarding everything metallic within a house as a potential extraneous-c-p - we'd be back to spoons and door knobs again!!

Kind Regards, John

 

[AlanE]

There have been reported instances of plastic, yellow MDPE, being installed incorrectly within a building but it is wrong (and if reported been replaced) since it constitutes a major risk of melting if the property becomes involved with a fire.

Also if the earth bonding was connected to the input side of gas meter that was also wrong. The bonding should be customer side of meter as there is sometimes an insulating fitting used that would isolate, electrically, the consumers installation from the main service.

 

[EFLImpudence]

Also if the earth bonding was connected to the input side of gas meter that was also wrong. The bonding should be customer side of meter as there is sometimes an insulating fitting used that would isolate, electrically, the consumers installation from the main service.

That is indeed the regulation.

However, totally insulating (isolating) the consumer's installation would be an advantage as it is only the main service that can introduce a potential.

It's probably a case of 'us' not being allowed to touch the gas supplier's 'property' just as with the electrical supply.

 

[JohnW2]

Also if the earth bonding was connected to the input side of gas meter that was also wrong. The bonding should be customer side of meter as there is sometimes an insulating fitting used that would isolate, electrically, the consumers installation from the main service.

That is indeed the regulation.

Indeed - but, as you go on to imply, and contrary to what AlanE suggested, that does not really make electrical sense, and could, in some circumstances (e.g. when there is no connection between gas pipework and water pipework, or anything else earthed - which can happen in the absence of a gas boiler) could/would actually introduce an unnecessary hazard, if the meter were 'insulating'.

Kind Regards, John

 

[pjcomp]

When the gas men disconnected the earth bond from the gas pipe, did they confirm there is still an earth present? '60s house, could be the gas pipe was being used as the main earth connection and the OP may now be unearthed.

pj