Earthing issues

[james19000]

I own a upper floor maisonette in a semi detached building split into two, Ground and upper floor.

The main electrics enter the building through the lower maisonette.

I recently received an email from the owners of the lower maisonette that their electrician sent to [email protected]

The property is split in 2
I am unable to connect the earth / clamp to increase the CSA because the upstairs is also connected as shown on photos.
I was intending to create an MET but I wasn't able to as didn't want to disturb your earthing ..
​

in a previous email from our neighbours they advised:

Our electrician has let us know that our main earths are interlinked. This means that neither of us can connect to the main earth without turning of the power from the other flat. He advised that this should be rectified by the DNO - district network operator (he said this is likely to be either UK Power or Scottish Power) and we can claim it as a safety issue. I am not sure whether this is the same as the energy provider.
I am going to ask our tenants to raise it with their energy provider and would be grateful if you could also raise it with yours so that this can be addressed as soon as possible.​

attached are a couple of photos that they sent

IMG_20211212_190211

• james19000
• 16 Dec 2021

IMG_20211212_161804

• james19000
• 16 Dec 2021

any advise regarding how I should approach this will be appreciated.

thank you

 

[flameport]

The earth in the image is the very thin wire attached to the incoming cable near the floor. It requires substantial improvement.
It's the lower half of a much older metal enclosure, the top of which has been removed at some point and the more recent fuseholders and neutral block added above.
Ideally the whole lot needs to be replaced.
It can only be done by the DNO. The energy supplier is unrelated and won't be able to do anything.

The red and black wires to the right of the picture also need to be replaced. If those supply your flat, it's very likely you will have to pay for the replacement.
They also appear to be connected incorrectly, as the red wire connects to the neutral block.

 

[ericmark]

MET is main earthing terminal.

It looks as if he is upgrading the electrics in the lower floor, and if he disconnects your earth even for a short time that would be dangerous unless the power is turned off, so he seems to be asking for a slot to work in where the power can be switched off.

It seems this is a letter to the DNO explaining why he can't do something they have asked for, rather than to you?

Looking at the two supplies there seems to be a massive difference in cable size used. This is worrying as it may be the DNO will not reconnect the smaller cables, I have rarely worked with the DNO so not sure what they would do. The cables up to the meter belong to DNO in most cases, much depends where you meter is.

Since in England what I will assume is your flat is owner occupied and the lower one rented, so you do not need an EICR (Electrical installation Condition report) but they do, there is what is legal required with the report, and what the IET have said the report should contain which don't match, so it seems an electrician has reported the tails too small, and has give it a code C2 which is correct, but the law does not include the DNO part of the installation so although a code C2 technically not a fail as not included in a landlord EICR. There are also things not included in the IET version which are included in the law as well, it is a shambles.

I will guess what you need is a new isolator and new tails plus earth going down to the point where the electrics come in, however you have no urgent need to comply, as home owner occupier it is up to you, unlike the rented flat no one can tell you what you need to do, I had the problem with my father, I knew his house was not safe and needed rewiring, but he said I am not living in a building site, you can do it when I die, and that is what happened.

Son has similar problem, he had wires running around his house supplying next door, it was not on the DNO records so clearly some one where built took a short cut without any way-leave, and the DNO admitted they needed to move them, but at their leisure it seems.

So it seems the DNO will likely need to contact you and arrange to up-grade the tails, but in the mean time you have some time to decide what you want, likely an isolator so when you need to swap a consumer unit you can do it without paying the DNO to disconnect and reconnect.

But only a guess, I may have read it wrong.

 

[AndyPRK]

Or maybe they just want to turn your power off for 30 mins to work on the earth wires

 

[securespark]

Yes as FP says, you need to contact the DNO.

Find the emergency number for your DNO and let them know the situation. You will obviously have to work out between you the best time to call as the DNO will need access to both properties at the same time.

But I can't see the DNO charging you for the replacement of those wires as they appear to have been installed originally by the electricity company.

 

[james19000]

Thank you to everyone that has replied to my question...

My neighbour has dropped the following update:

We have had our flat rewired and Ukpowernetworks came out to inspect the earthing that is not currently in place and will return later this month to address this as it is currently unsafe.



My electrician has informed me that Ukpowernetworks refused to touch the VIR CABLE (he said this is to your flat) and said it would have to be replaced as it is unsafe. I recommend you look up VIR cables online as there is a lot of information about the dangers associated with them.



I did read this about VIR cables in relation to insurance:



Remember once you have been made aware, and should there be a problem in the future, where fire officers, or insurance companies are involved. It has been highlighted to you, then you could face a void insurance claim.​

Is this correct regarding insurance? or is this our neighbours hurrying us up?

I've asked their electrician round to give us a quote for the work that needs doing.

Please could you tell me what are the credentials required for electrical work in the household?

Can an electrician be self certifying? or do I need the services of another electrician to check their work and certify it as being done to current regulations.

Thank you for your help.

 

[securespark]

Is the VIR feed to your maisonette the responsibility of the DNO or yourself? I would have said it was down to them to replace it as it is part of their equipment

 

[james19000]

Is the VIR feed to your maisonette the responsibility of the DNO or yourself? I would have said it was down to them to replace it as it is part of their equipment

I had an electrician visit for quote today and he said that I need to get in touch with the dno and enquire about this... as he said the same thing... He said its the responsibility of the dno as he's only allowed to touch the electrics after the meter unless he has permission from the DNO (I may have imagined that last bit... as we spoke quite a lot about it and it was making my head spin)

 

[flameport]

he said that I need to get in touch with the dno and enquire about this.

He is correct, you need to contact them, which is what you should have done 3 months ago.
Call them tomorrow. The number is 105.