Economy 7 clock wrong

[Harry Bloomfield]

and was auto transferred to British Gas, which in hindsight, and hindsight is easy, cost me a lot of money, ..........................

Me too, I was stuck with BG for many months, until they eventually sorted the finances of my account out, and I was finally able to move my account...

Moving to Octopus got this all sorted, and I now feel some loyalty to Octopus as a result.

They weren't the cheapest offering, at the time, but they have been excellent value for us, on the Tracker, including a way to save a bit more, by simply keeping an eye on daily costs. Throughout, they have been honest, and stable - you know where you are with them, which is worth a lot.

 

[JohnW2]

In the distant past, we had two meters - the usual black peak one, plus a white off-peak one. From memory, the entire supply, was either connected to one meter, or the other - so it was down to us, to have our own system(s) to switch on/off at the correct times.

We're both somewhat scraping the barrel of our dusty ancient memories but, like Sunray, I have a feeling that what you say is not quite correct.

If I recall correctly (goodness knows ), the concept of 'cheap rate electricity' being available 'for everything in the installation' is something which 'came later' - and that in the early days of 'white meters', only the storage meters were wired to them, so that they were the only loads which enjoyed the cheap 'off-peak' rate. What I can't recall with certainty is whether, in those days, the switching of power to the storage heaters was done by consumers' time switches or ones supplied with the meter.

 

[ericmark]

We're both somewhat scraping the barrel of our dusty ancient memories but, like Sunray, I have a feeling that what you say is not quite correct.

If I recall correctly (goodness knows ), the concept of 'cheap rate electricity' being available 'for everything in the installation' is something which 'came later' - and that in the early days of 'white meters', only the storage meters were wired to them, so that they were the only loads which enjoyed the cheap 'off-peak' rate. What I can't recall with certainty is whether, in those days, the switching of power to the storage heaters was done by consumers' time switches or ones supplied with the meter.

I remember the White meter which as you said fed its own dedicated fuse box, consumer units not out back then, there was a special unit for the immersion heater with two feeds, one from each fuse box, but can't remember how it worked. Can't remember where the time clock was, don't think the radio telelink was working back then, just a simple time clock.

 

[Rodders53]

DO read the MSE forum thread... where the OP has remained active and the thread stayed more on his specific case topic... It may teach us all something or has/is doing in my case.

There are tables / calendars the Supplier can update
1. ALCS - Automatic Load Control Switching
2. TFT - Tariff Switching Table

SOME suppliers on taking over a meter update one and not the other and others might do both... or even neither. Both though can only be updated by the incumbent supplier via the DCC. 5-port meters are less common so poorly trained front line staff might be 'forgiven' for not knowing this complexity? But I'd suggest that re-training would be essential.

Not all suppliers use the same times for cheap rate electric: for example EoN Drive v7 is 0000-0700, 7hs for and v12 0000-0600, 6 hrs; Octopus IOG is 2330-0530 also 6hrs.
So relatively easy for suppliers to make mistakes that mean the ALCS and TFT get out of sync.

Randomised offset: see https://www.smartme.co.uk/how-they-work#toc_Randomised-Offset
Note that the offset affects both TFT and ALCS so billing/timing is corrected for that theoretical 0-30 minute offset. Also covered in the MSE thread in some detail.

 

[SUNRAY]

That property I mentioned did indeed have white and black meters, AFAIC in my meter box I had just the 2 meters, the cut out and wires. In those days I didn't have a digital camera or mobile phone (which wouldn't have had a camera anyway) to sadly no pics.
In the property is trunking up the wall leading directly to the CU
There has never been a timeswitch of contactor after the meter box for the NSH's
The NSH's had no form of timers
One NSH had a second supply (13A plug in the ring final) for day time boost
The immersion heater was fed from both supplies with a Horstmann (Sp?) time switch. Still that controller except just the 24hr supply

I have only ever worked on one other white meter service and it too had had no form of additional contactors or time control within the property, either DNO or customer owned, that one had dual immersion heaters, bottom on cheap rate - top on 24hr

Heres one I made earlier

AFAIC the white meter switched the supply.

 

[ebee]

I remember the old "clock" arrangement befor the "New Fangled White Meters".
Supply was split of with a large clock that set the supply for the storage heater/immersion heater and wound up the clockwork spring to tension.
It was set maually to the "Rack of the eye" by the DNO (Electricity Board) and was never altered for years.
If the mains supply was cut then the spring was now capable of running the clock to keep time and once the power resumed you could hear the spring being wound back up.
It kept time reasonably for years.
Simple an effective.

 

[JohnW2]

There are tables / calendars the Supplier can update .... 1. ALCS - Automatic Load Control Switching ... 2. TFT - Tariff Switching Table
... SOME suppliers on taking over a meter update one and not the other and others might do both... or even neither.

Randomised offset: see https://www.smartme.co.uk/how-they-work#toc_Randomised-Offset
Note that the offset affects both TFT and ALCS so billing/timing is corrected for that theoretical 0-30 minute offset. Also covered in the MSE thread in some detail.

Yes, I've been trying to pass all that on to folk here, strange though some it seems.

What I don't really understand, as per your statement that random offsets need to affect both TFT and ALCS, why a supplier would ever want/need to (or even 'be allowed/able to') set the two clocks out-of-synch with one another. What am I missing?

 

[Rodders53]

What I don't really understand, as per your statement that random offsets need to affect both TFT and ALCS, why a supplier would ever want/need to (or even 'be allowed/able to') set the two clocks out-of-synch with one another. What am I missing?

ALCS contactors can be told to open... close... and revert to calendar... by supplier (or DNO perhaps to load shed/re-enable)... see the smartme link...
RTS was able to start storage heater use dependent on weather forecast area by area... so that's fairly similar?

How it works as two separate things is Strange/Illogical/Madcap but that's how it is; and users and suppliers have to be aware of it and work with it. Nowt we say will change how it works!

 

[JohnW2]

How it works as two separate things is Strange/Illogical/Madcap but that's how it is;

Fair enough. As I said, that ("that's how it is") is the message I've been trying to pass on to the folk here, but some of them seem to have been almost 'blaming me' (the mere 'messenger'!) for the fact that it seems more than a little illogical/crazy

Kind Regards, John