Economy 7 Storage Heater and Water not heating up overnight!

[yellows]

No - i think that has same issue, but I think it is because it is connected to the main living room system.

For the bedroom heater there is only one plug switch (not 2 like the living room). When the one switch is on, it operates in sync with the main living room storage heater. So if the living room heater is on and heating up, then the bedroom one does as well.

Hence as the living room heater does not heat up on its own at night under E7 neither is the bedroom one. However if the living room one is on manual boost and hence heating up, the bedroom one does as well.

 

[Bosswhite]

Sounds odd, both Heaters should be on separate circuits and the Immersion heater which run back to separate fuses/MCBs in the fuse box, do you know what fuses/MCBs control what circuits.?? It should be written on the lid of the fuse box, or labels on the MCBs

 

[phatboy]

Dont be fooled into thinking that you can use electric after midnight and it would be cheaper.

Only items connected to the 7hr live cable will be able to take advantage of the cheaper cost of electric.

Ha Ha its the time switch part of the meter that decides what you pay why do you think it has 2 rates , no other meter thats it .

There is a 24 hour live and a 7 hour live, the 7 hour live is the lower rate cost of electricity, which is why the meter has two readings. If there was one reading, how would the supplier differentiate between the which is the higher and lower cost units?

The time switch switches the 7 hour to live once it has received the signal.

Stop giving out dodgy advice - you are not correct. Incorrect advice is worse than no advice!!!

E7 DEFINITELY effects the rate of ALL electricity used via the meter at night. Some suppliers call the cheap rate 'night rate', a all nighttime electricity is cheaper

 

[bernardgreen]

E7 DEFINITELY effects the rate of ALL electricity used via the meter at night. Some suppliers call the cheap rate 'night rate', a all nighttime electricity is cheaper

Playing Devil's Advocate, BGSMjack may have seen one of the E7 schemes where there were effectively two meters and the normal load was metered seperately from the OFF peak load.

It tempted people to bodge up change over switches which caused a number of accidents and so the system changed to the present system remove the incentive for dangerous change overs. To compensate for the loss of income from normal load being charged at OFF peak rates the cost per unit for the entire use was increased.

 

[crystal ball]

Strictly speaking those tariffs were not E7, they had names like D32, D13 etc.

Never heard that story before, I was told by the men in suits it was to rationalise all the different tariffs

 

[JohnW2]

Playing Devil's Advocate, BGSMjack may have seen one of the E7 schemes where there were effectively two meters and the normal load was metered seperately from the OFF peak load.

Indeed, historically that is true. I inherited such a situation when I moved into my present house 25 years ago. One advantage of that system was that the off-peak meter was only live at off-peak times, so there was no need for separate time switch(es) for storage heaters. However, as crystal ball has said, that was not called Economy 7.

It tempted people to bodge up change over switches which caused a number of accidents and so the system changed to the present system remove the incentive for dangerous change overs. To compensate for the loss of income from normal load being charged at OFF peak rates the cost per unit for the entire use was increased.

That may possibly be part of the explanation, but I think the suppliers also wanted to encourage (and incentivise) people to shift as much demand as possible (not just storage heaters) to off-peak times. As for costs, in relation to the 'normal' rate, my current E7 off-peak rate is actually cheaper than was that off-peak rate (whatever the tariff was called) back in 1987.

Kind Regards, John

 

[MeterMonkey]

Economy 7 was brought in to offset the cost to heat a household that did not have gas central heating. Hence the storage heaters being only connected up to the 7 hour switch live.

AFAIK as a meter fitter ( And i should know) only the heating part of an economy 7 system is supposed to the 'cheaper' part of the electric.

I shall make some phone calls and enquire though.

 

[JohnW2]

AFAIK as a meter fitter ( And i should know) only the heating part of an economy 7 system is supposed to the 'cheaper' part of the electric.

Although one obviously has to respect your position as a meter fitter, I have to say that I have not seen a system such as you describe for many years.

I'm on an Economy 7 tariff, and my (single) meter has only one set of load-side tails (there is no 'heating part' to my system) - so, even if I did have electrical heating (which I don't), there is no way that the system could selectively meter it for off-peak charging. My entire installation is supplied by that one set of tails, and the meter simply switches from 'day' to 'night' rate for the appropriate 7 hours. Were that not the case, it obviously would not be worth my while to have E7 - but, in fact, it saves me quite a bit.

Kind Regards, John

 

[MeterMonkey]

That would be a 4 terminal 2 rate meter then, We do install these, along with 5 terminal 2 rate meters.

The meter in the picture has 5 terminals, which is why i am to assume it is this way.

You may find that if your normal rate electric costs are slightly higher than the standard 1rate tariffs

 

[JohnW2]

That would be a 4 terminal 2 rate meter then, We do install these, along with 5 terminal 2 rate meters.

Indeed - well, actually, it's an 8-terminal 2-rate meter (3-phase) but the principle is the same - just a single set of (3P+N) load-side tails.

You may find that if your normal rate electric costs are slightly higher than the standard 1rate tariffs

Indeed - but is that not true of all tariffs which include a cheap off-peak rate? Let's face it, if that were not the case, then it would be everyone's interests to have an E7-like tariff! With my tariff, the financial 'break-even' situation arises when approximately 30% of my usage is off-peak, and I achieve a lot better than that, hence an appreciable saving as compared with a 'standard single rate' tariff.

Kind Regards, John

 

[Bosswhite]

No - i think that has same issue, but I think it is because it is connected to the main living room system.

For the bedroom heater there is only one plug switch (not 2 like the living room). When the one switch is on, it operates in sync with the main living room storage heater. So if the living room heater is on and heating up, then the bedroom one does as well.

Hence as the living room heater does not heat up on its own at night under E7 neither is the bedroom one. However if the living room one is on manual boost and hence heating up, the bedroom one does as well.

Whilst everyone is arguing what Tariff is What we are missing the main point,
This Electrical Circuit for the Storage Heaters and Immersion does not seem to comply with Regs,
I find it strange and possibly dangerous that a main Room Heater can be controlled by a switch elsewhere in another room, it seems the heaters could be switched on/off, not knowing the conditions in a particular room. Sounds Odd to me.

 

[gazfen]

Dont be fooled into thinking that you can use electric after midnight and it would be cheaper.

Only items connected to the 7hr live cable will be able to take advantage of the cheaper cost of electric.

love it jack
fooking great bg aint they, do you fit contactors yet.

 

[MeterMonkey]

I assume the question is rhetorical. go bug someone else.

 

[gazfen]

I assume the question is rhetorical. go bug someone else.

. I don't even know what that means lol

 

[bernardgreen]

I find it strange and possibly dangerous that a main Room Heater can be controlled by a switch elsewhere in another room, it seems the heaters could be switched on/off, not knowing the conditions in a particular room. Sounds Odd to me.

The "switch" is in the supply network control room. The one that turns on thousands of heating elements when it activates the economy 7 switched supplies in thousands of homes. And yes there is a hazard with this.