1. Visiting from the US? Why not try DIYnot.US instead? Click here to continue to DIYnot.US.
    Dismiss Notice

EICR help please.

Discussion in 'Electrics UK' started by diamondplus, 24 Jun 2021.

  1. diamondplus

    diamondplus

    Joined:
    24 Jun 2021
    Messages:
    4
    Thanks Received:
    0
    Country:
    United Kingdom
    Hi all,

    We're currently in the advanced stages of buying a 4 bedroom detached house in the midlands (built approx 1980) for us to live in (i.e. not to rent) and have had an EICR carried out. The result came back "UNSATISFACTORY" with the following concerns:
    • 5.6 Condition of enclosure(s) in terms of fire rating etc (421.1.6; 421.1.201; 526.5) C3
    • 5.14 Confirmation of indication that SPD is functional (651.4) C3
    • 5.15 RCD(s) provided for fault protection - includes RCBOs (411.4.204; 411.5.2; 531.2) C1
    • 5.16 RCD(s) provided for additional protection, where required - includes RCBOs (411.3.3; 415.1) C1
    • 5.17 Presence of RCD 6 monthly test notice at or near equipment, where required (514.12.2) C1
    • 5.18 Presence of diagrams, charts or schedules at or near equipment, where required (514.9.1) C1
    • 7.7 Adequacy of protective devices: type and rated current for fault protection (411.3) - HI End to end readings on lives on socket circuits C2
    • 7.12b *for the supply of mobile equipment not exceeding 32 A rating for use outdoors (411.3.3) C2
    • 7.12c *for cables concealed in walls at a depth of less than 50 mm (522.6.202, .203) C2
    • 7.12e * Final Circuits supplying luminaires within domestic (household) premises (411.3.4) C2
    • 9.7b Installed to minimise build-up of heat by use of “fire rated” fittings, insulation displacement box or similar (421.1.2) C1

    As you can see, there's a few C1s (a.k.a "Danger Present. Risk of injury. Immediate action required."). Any advice would be appreciated as I'm not an electrician!
    • Is the house an immediate death trap?
    • Should we get the existing owner (who still lives there) to fix the items?
    • Or should we proceed with the sale and fix the issues ourselves? Perhaps haggle on the house price?
    The electrician quoted repairs at approx £1,500 (which includes VAT). The repairs break down to:
    • New 18th edition consumer unit (the old unit is 60947-3 if that helps?) -- approx £600
    • 16 x fire rated spotlights (as in downlights?) -- approx £700.
    • Surge protection unit -- approx £110
    • New meter Tails -- approx £60

    Are all these items needed if we don't want to fix the C3 issues? Is it worthwhile biting the bullet and getting the C3s done at the same time anyway?


    Thanks for reading.
     
  2. Sponsored Links
  3. EFLImpudence

    EFLImpudence

    Joined:
    7 Jul 2010
    Messages:
    37,466
    Thanks Received:
    4,201
    Location:
    Retired to:
    Country:
    Portugal
    • 5.6 Condition of enclosure(s) in terms of fire rating etc (421.1.6; 421.1.201; 526.5) C3 Ok.
    • 5.14 Confirmation of indication that SPD is functional (651.4) C3 Ok. Do you have an SPD? If you do your CU must be very new.
    • 5.15 RCD(s) [not?] provided for fault protection - includes RCBOs (411.4.204; 411.5.2; 531.2) C1 There is no 411.4.204. 411.5.2 relates to TT systems (earth electrode) which means you must have RCDs on all circuits for fault protection. Do you have a TT system?
    • 5.16 RCD(s) [not?] provided for additional protection, where required - includes RCBOs (411.3.3;415.1) C1 Same as above.
    • 5.17 Presence of RCD 6 monthly test notice at or near equipment, where required (514.12.2) C1 Rubbish.
    • 5.18 Presence of diagrams, charts or schedules at or near equipment, where required (514.9.1) C1 Rubbish.
    • 7.7 Adequacy of protective devices: type and rated current for fault protection (411.3) - HI End to end readings on lives on socket circuits C2 Might be correct, can be rectified.
    • 7.12b *for the supply of mobile equipment not exceeding 32 A rating for use outdoors (411.3.3) C2 Might be correct, can be rectified. Same as 5.16.
    • 7.12c *for cables concealed in walls at a depth of less than 50 mm (522.6.202, .203) C2 C3 How does he know? Also related to the RCD matter.
    • 7.12e * Final Circuits supplying luminaires within domestic (household) premises (411.3.4) C2 C3 Also related to the RCD matter.
    • 9.7b Installed to minimise build-up of heat by use of “fire rated” fittings, insulation displacement box or similar (421.1.2) C1 Fire-rated not required in single premises.
    It would appear that something is wrong relating to RCDs so a new consumer unit might be required.
    It depends on the Earthing method.

    I don't suppose you know the Earthing method at the premises.
    What is on the certificate - TT, TN-S or TN-C-S.

    A picture of the certificate would be helpful - with names not shown.

    Edited 411.4.204
     
    Last edited: 24 Jun 2021
    • Thanks Thanks x 1
  4. EFLImpudence

    EFLImpudence

    Joined:
    7 Jul 2010
    Messages:
    37,466
    Thanks Received:
    4,201
    Location:
    Retired to:
    Country:
    Portugal
    You will not be able to get the present owner to do anything other than possibly adjust the selling price, but if not it depends how much you want the property.
     
    • Thanks Thanks x 1
  5. diamondplus

    diamondplus

    Joined:
    24 Jun 2021
    Messages:
    4
    Thanks Received:
    0
    Country:
    United Kingdom


    Thanks for the response.

    I'm guessing there's not an SPD (Surge Protective Device) at the moment as in the quote letter he recommended having one fitted (though not essential for passing the report).

    The EICR says earthing method is: TN-C-S.

    I'm not 100% sure the best way of getting you a redacted scan of the EICR but I could still do so if you think it's still helpful (unless there's any other specific questions you want me to answer?).

    To answer your other post, we're keen to buy the property and (reluctantly!) would be prepared to pay the repair costs ourselves upon purchase. I guess I want assurances that the property is still safe to buy and live in. I'm guessing so, as the current owner hasn't had to flee the house (as far as we know!).
     
  6. chivers67

    chivers67

    Joined:
    18 Nov 2008
    Messages:
    1,429
    Thanks Received:
    174
    Location:
    Surrey
    Country:
    United Kingdom
    Odd to say not having a 6 month label a C1!

    Try photographing the test results with a camera outside if overcast and post that.
     
    • Thanks Thanks x 1
  7. EFLImpudence

    EFLImpudence

    Joined:
    7 Jul 2010
    Messages:
    37,466
    Thanks Received:
    4,201
    Location:
    Retired to:
    Country:
    Portugal
    In that case it is possible that none of the things mentioned is relevant.

    If there are no RCDs then it is C3 and how can a missing sticker about them be necessary - let alone C1.

    The installation is just old and nothing might need doing - although you might like to have a new CU just as you might like to have a new car.


    Perhaps you need another EICR - an Electrical Inspector Conman Report.

    Few 'electricians' are competent to carry out EICRs.
     
    • Thanks Thanks x 1
    • Like Like x 1
  8. diamondplus

    diamondplus

    Joined:
    24 Jun 2021
    Messages:
    4
    Thanks Received:
    0
    Country:
    United Kingdom
    Hi all, as requested, attached are redacted scans of the EICR.

    EICR_1.jpg EICR_2.jpg EICR_3.jpg EICR_4.jpg EICR_5.jpg EICR_6.jpg EICR_7.jpg EICR_8.jpg EICR_10.jpg
     
  9. EFLImpudence

    EFLImpudence

    Joined:
    7 Jul 2010
    Messages:
    37,466
    Thanks Received:
    4,201
    Location:
    Retired to:
    Country:
    Portugal
    Even 7.7 which might be the only thing to actually worry about is not verified by the test results which are fine.

    upload_2021-6-24_16-52-31.png

    and you do have an RCD on most circuits.
    Adding an RCD to the Garage would be wise, but that might not require a new CU.
     
    • Thanks Thanks x 1
  10. Sponsored Links
  11. studentspark

    studentspark

    Joined:
    13 Mar 2010
    Messages:
    591
    Thanks Received:
    15
    Location:
    London
    Country:
    United Kingdom
    Some silly errors, and some incorrect coding, but nothing scary in the test results

    Buy the house, if you love it...
    Don't worry about this certificate, the person who filled it in didn't.

    When you move in get a decent Electrician to give it a once over, Im sure you will be making changes, so a good time for any corrective works
     
    • Thanks Thanks x 1
    • Like Like x 1
  12. chivers67

    chivers67

    Joined:
    18 Nov 2008
    Messages:
    1,429
    Thanks Received:
    174
    Location:
    Surrey
    Country:
    United Kingdom
    Looks like it's just the lighting (no big deal) and garage that isn't protected by an RCD. I agree with both the above. When you move in post some photos of the DB in the garage in this thread and we should be able to advise or confirm what Efli says.
     
    Last edited: 25 Jun 2021
    • Thanks Thanks x 1
  13. flameport

    flameport

    Joined:
    10 Mar 2007
    Messages:
    9,923
    Thanks Received:
    1,988
    Location:
    Poole, Dorset
    Country:
    United Kingdom
    The EICR is drivel.

    None of those C1s are correct. The C2s are questionable.

    Unlikely.

    After you have moved in, obtain quotes from someone else.
     
    • Thanks Thanks x 1
    • Like Like x 1
  14. ericmark

    ericmark

    Joined:
    27 Jan 2008
    Messages:
    18,614
    Thanks Received:
    1,746
    Location:
    Llanfair Caereinion, Nr Welshpool
    Country:
    United Kingdom
    When I see clear faults in the writing of the EICR, I question the rest, best option when so many errors is assign it to the bin. Sorry.
    As said missing labels is clearly not a C1, so if such a clear error is made, can't trust the rest.
     
    • Like Like x 2
    • Thanks Thanks x 1
  15. securespark

    securespark

    Joined:
    11 Jan 2004
    Messages:
    37,149
    Thanks Received:
    1,290
    Country:
    United Kingdom
    He's put down 6 milli as the CPC on 10 Milli T&E.

    He's also put 1.5 down for the CPC on 2.5 cable. In a 1980 house (assuming it has not been rewired since then), it is likely 2.5/ 1.0.
     
    • Thanks Thanks x 1
  16. diamondplus

    diamondplus

    Joined:
    24 Jun 2021
    Messages:
    4
    Thanks Received:
    0
    Country:
    United Kingdom
    Thank you to everybody for your help! I admit, I'm not an electrician so I don't fully understand everything, but the key thing is that the house is safe to buy and move into!
     
  17. plugwash

    plugwash

    Joined:
    28 Mar 2004
    Messages:
    9,591
    Thanks Received:
    377
    Country:
    United Kingdom
    The readings look more consistent with 2.5/1.5 than 2.5/1.0 to me.

    If we take the aveage of the R1 and Rn readings (assuming the difference is measurement error) amd assume 2.5/1.5 we get expected CPC resistances of 0.87 for circuit 2 (in the RCD group) and 1.37 for circuit 3 in the RCD group. If we assume 2.5/1.0 the we would expect 1.3 for circuit 2 and 2.05 for circuit 3.
     
    • Thanks Thanks x 2
Loading...

Share This Page