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sorry... forgot, ive linked to the pictures instead.. my 19" monitor and highspeed broadband handled them fine... forgot about those with little monitors and 56k connections 
electric shower problems in rented accomodation
- Thread starter DavidEvans007
- Start date
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Your pictures still don't alter the substance of what I have said or where I think you stand legally. Your best hope is that the letting agent doesn't understand landlord and tenant law or is so annoyed with you bugging him that he coughs up some dosh to make you go away.
Once again, it is your landlord who is responsible for repairs and he only becomes responsible when disrepair is reported to him.
I am not unsympathetic, just giving it to you straight.
If you don't want to take my word for it you could check out this
Lets just assume that the landlord and the agent are evil personified so we don't have to keep going back to it. The fact is you are in breach of contract. My mum always told me that two wrongs don't make a right, and so it is in law. No matter what a w****r your landlord (or his agent) is you did not do what you ought to have done. Contractually you are the only person who has done anything wrong.
You might try to rely on the tort of Negligence. However, with a tort the burden of proof rests with you. You would need to prove that:
A duty of care was owed........No problem there.
That a breach of that duty occured......The landlord did what any reasonable person would to ensure the electrics were safe, by asking an electrician to check them....hence no breach. Moreover he could not be in breach of his covenant to repair because you hadn't told him of the disrepair.
Even if you could prove a breach occured you would then have to prove damage (and damages in such cases are strictly defined) at best the damage is the cost of the materials you bought. You cannot claim for you own time and forget all the stuff you here about claiming for emotional distress or whatever...you can't.
So if your landlord is switched on he will defend any claim. He will almost certainly win (and will likely be awarded costs which you will have to pay). In a worst case scenario he will lose and have to pay the cost of the materials you bought.
However...if you had not carried out the repair yourself you would have had a whole range of remedies if after reporting the disrepair your landlord had not fixed the shower.
I am afraid it isn't uncommon for people to shoot themselves in the foot in these cases. I hope in future you will report disrepair and then get advice (free if necessary from the CAB) if your landlord does not carry out the repair.
Once again, it is your landlord who is responsible for repairs and he only becomes responsible when disrepair is reported to him.
I am not unsympathetic, just giving it to you straight.
If you don't want to take my word for it you could check out this
Lets just assume that the landlord and the agent are evil personified so we don't have to keep going back to it. The fact is you are in breach of contract. My mum always told me that two wrongs don't make a right, and so it is in law. No matter what a w****r your landlord (or his agent) is you did not do what you ought to have done. Contractually you are the only person who has done anything wrong.
You might try to rely on the tort of Negligence. However, with a tort the burden of proof rests with you. You would need to prove that:
A duty of care was owed........No problem there.
That a breach of that duty occured......The landlord did what any reasonable person would to ensure the electrics were safe, by asking an electrician to check them....hence no breach. Moreover he could not be in breach of his covenant to repair because you hadn't told him of the disrepair.
Even if you could prove a breach occured you would then have to prove damage (and damages in such cases are strictly defined) at best the damage is the cost of the materials you bought. You cannot claim for you own time and forget all the stuff you here about claiming for emotional distress or whatever...you can't.
So if your landlord is switched on he will defend any claim. He will almost certainly win (and will likely be awarded costs which you will have to pay). In a worst case scenario he will lose and have to pay the cost of the materials you bought.
However...if you had not carried out the repair yourself you would have had a whole range of remedies if after reporting the disrepair your landlord had not fixed the shower.
I am afraid it isn't uncommon for people to shoot themselves in the foot in these cases. I hope in future you will report disrepair and then get advice (free if necessary from the CAB) if your landlord does not carry out the repair.
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masona said:
thats what i told them when they said i was in breach of contract... they told me not to be so stupid !!... if they dont pay up then im sticking the old one back on the wall when we move out anyway (currently looking for a bigger property)
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David,
you also need to be aware of the fact that whenever a tenant improves a property (whether it is because of a defect or because they just want some improvment), firstly they must have the consent of the landlord to do it. Once it is done the improvment belongs to the landlord. So you cannot now legally remove the shower, it belongs to the landlord. However, the landlord can ask you to remove it (or recover the cost of removing it) from you because you did it without his consent.
I would really suggest that you get proper advice if you are determined to pursue this becuase without it you are likely to get yourself in a bigger mess. You can get free legal advice on things like this from the CAB.
Your problem is a legal one rather than a technical one and you are not going to get the advice you need here.
you also need to be aware of the fact that whenever a tenant improves a property (whether it is because of a defect or because they just want some improvment), firstly they must have the consent of the landlord to do it. Once it is done the improvment belongs to the landlord. So you cannot now legally remove the shower, it belongs to the landlord. However, the landlord can ask you to remove it (or recover the cost of removing it) from you because you did it without his consent.
I would really suggest that you get proper advice if you are determined to pursue this becuase without it you are likely to get yourself in a bigger mess. You can get free legal advice on things like this from the CAB.
Your problem is a legal one rather than a technical one and you are not going to get the advice you need here.
David,
you also asked "also your point about rented accomodation not being correct to IEE regs... if that was the case how come the council had to go around everyones house and fit smoke detectors that were wired in through the mains and not just stick battery powered ones on the ceiling."
Well there are particular regulations relating specifically to fire precautions in HMO's (Houses of Multiple Occupation). They may well apply to the property you live in if it is a HMO. If you think you do and you think the fire precautions are inadequate then you should contact the environmental health department in your local council. However, that has nothing whatsoever to do with showers or with IEE 16.
Also many landlords (I work as a consultant to a couple of housing associations) seek to improve propertys beyond what is legally required. Housing Associations and Councils typically want to provide the best they can with the money they have and often improve beyond the legal minumum.
Incidentally, if you have disrepair problems in future you must report them to your landlord and give him an opportunity to put them right. If he does not do so you have a whole range of options, one of which is to report it to environmental health. They have the power to serve notice on a landlord requiring them to undertake work in some instances. But never, ever, do the work yourself or pay to have it done without getting legal advice.
I should also add that I have been a housing association tenant and a private sector tenant in the past, and am now a landord (not a big one I let one flat). Private sector landlords are a mixed bunch, some good, some bad, but there is a raft of legislation to protect tenants and all you need do if you have problems is start by getting some legal advice.
As a landlord I don't make a fortune. Most don't. To give you and example my rental flat has been unnocupied for about two months whilst work is being done to it. The work will be costing me about £2000. Whilst it is empty the mortgage (interest only, so it isn't paying off anything I owe) is costing me about £400 a month. So this two month period will have cost me about £2800.
When I let the flat I will get a rent of about £600 a month and from that will have to pay the £400 mortgage (and that will increase as interest rates rise), so lets say at best a gross profit of £200 a month. That gross profit will take 14 months to recover the costs of the work and the void period, so I won't make any net profit for that long even in the best case.
If I had a tenant who did not report disrepair to me and allow me to put things right, but rather decided to do things themself and try to charge me for them I would not pay. I make no profit as it is and I am not going to tolerate someone riding roughshod over my rights to take money out of my pocket. However, I am a good landlord and will arrange any repairs that are neccesary and are my obligation. In my experience most small landlords are much like me. All we ask is that tenants comply with thier contractual obligations and we comply with ours.
you also asked "also your point about rented accomodation not being correct to IEE regs... if that was the case how come the council had to go around everyones house and fit smoke detectors that were wired in through the mains and not just stick battery powered ones on the ceiling."
Well there are particular regulations relating specifically to fire precautions in HMO's (Houses of Multiple Occupation). They may well apply to the property you live in if it is a HMO. If you think you do and you think the fire precautions are inadequate then you should contact the environmental health department in your local council. However, that has nothing whatsoever to do with showers or with IEE 16.
Also many landlords (I work as a consultant to a couple of housing associations) seek to improve propertys beyond what is legally required. Housing Associations and Councils typically want to provide the best they can with the money they have and often improve beyond the legal minumum.
Incidentally, if you have disrepair problems in future you must report them to your landlord and give him an opportunity to put them right. If he does not do so you have a whole range of options, one of which is to report it to environmental health. They have the power to serve notice on a landlord requiring them to undertake work in some instances. But never, ever, do the work yourself or pay to have it done without getting legal advice.
I should also add that I have been a housing association tenant and a private sector tenant in the past, and am now a landord (not a big one I let one flat). Private sector landlords are a mixed bunch, some good, some bad, but there is a raft of legislation to protect tenants and all you need do if you have problems is start by getting some legal advice.
As a landlord I don't make a fortune. Most don't. To give you and example my rental flat has been unnocupied for about two months whilst work is being done to it. The work will be costing me about £2000. Whilst it is empty the mortgage (interest only, so it isn't paying off anything I owe) is costing me about £400 a month. So this two month period will have cost me about £2800.
When I let the flat I will get a rent of about £600 a month and from that will have to pay the £400 mortgage (and that will increase as interest rates rise), so lets say at best a gross profit of £200 a month. That gross profit will take 14 months to recover the costs of the work and the void period, so I won't make any net profit for that long even in the best case.
If I had a tenant who did not report disrepair to me and allow me to put things right, but rather decided to do things themself and try to charge me for them I would not pay. I make no profit as it is and I am not going to tolerate someone riding roughshod over my rights to take money out of my pocket. However, I am a good landlord and will arrange any repairs that are neccesary and are my obligation. In my experience most small landlords are much like me. All we ask is that tenants comply with thier contractual obligations and we comply with ours.
Interesting reading,
DavidEvans007,
Sometime life's not fair and we've all been there to learn the hard way.My own opinion would be,if it save your family's life using the shower then it's a bargain otherwise you could end up paying more than what the shower cost
ps: buy yourself a punch-bag (without the landlord inside ),you will feel better afterward
DavidEvans007,
Sometime life's not fair and we've all been there to learn the hard way.My own opinion would be,if it save your family's life using the shower then it's a bargain otherwise you could end up paying more than what the shower cost
ps: buy yourself a punch-bag (without the landlord inside
),you will feel better afterward - Joined
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just to let you know... we got the full amount for the shower
B
Big_Spark
GwaiLo said:
This is totally INCORRECT.
Please read the Building Regulation 1984 and amendments. It clearly states that all privately and commercially owned property which is rented, leased or otherwise given to others for their use must have an electrical installation that complies with The 15th Edition of the IEE Wiring Regualtions. Since then this has been superceded by BS7671:2001, and the Building regs have been updated accordingly, as the Building Regulations are actually an ACT of Parliament, they are LAW, as such you can and will be prosecuted for being in breach of them.
Further, it is likely to be a requirement of the local authority that all buildings rented out to tennents also comply with BS7671:2001.
I think the above statement proves the point.
To errrrrrrrr is human, to really mess up takes a Deputy Prime Minister
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