electrician credentials

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I've asked their electrician round to give us a quote for the work that needs doing.

Please could you tell me what are the credentials required for electrical work in the household?

Can an electrician be self certifying? or do I need the services of another electrician to check their work and certify it as being done to current regulations.

Thank you for your help.

Read more: https://www.diynot.com/diy/threads/earthing-issues.583187/#ixzz7MvsPoGYB
 
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There is no formal qualification for an electrician, he only needs to be able to do the job to call himself an electrician.

For domestic we do have some laws in regard to how work needs notifying to the authorities, which varies around the UK, since your in London which is in England the English rules apply, so most work does not require notifying, think from memory as I live in Wales, it is bathrooms and consumer units only.

The notifying can be done in one of three ways, either the electrician is a scheme member and can self notify, or he needs to get a third party inspector or the LABC to inspect his work. Seems daft but it is up to the home owner not the electrician to ensure either he is a scheme member or some other inspector has been engaged BEFORE THE WORK STARTS.

As a result there are very strict rules as to showing the logos of scheme providers, if the van he roles up in had the name of the scheme provider on the side, or paper work shows name of scheme provider, then the responsibility for registering the work becomes the electricians.

So all rule book says is "A person who possesses sufficient technical knowledge, relevant practical skills and experience for the nature of the electrical work undertaken and is able at all times to prevent danger and, where appropriate, injury to him/herself and others." nothing about have 18th edition, or inspection and testing exams.

When I did my apprenticeship I did go to collage, but there was nothing at that time to say I had to go to collage, throughout my working life I have been required by employers to attend many lessons to be updated, be them sitting on tool box called tool box talks, or returning to collage, but nothing says they must send me, all they need to do is convince the heath and safety executive they have taken reasonable steps.

The Part P building regulations came about to fill the gap where other laws did not cover, plus make it easier to take to court. The fees charged by LABC effectively stopped legal DIY, oddly DIY still allowed with gas, only with electrical was DIY stopped. But doing any work for payment then electricity at work act applies anyway.

There are some areas controlled by the distribution network operator (DNO) and in theory only some one authorised by the DNO can work on them, the DNO does not follow the BS7671 document they have their own book, there seems to be a grey area as to if the DNO or the user needs to provide a method of isolation, the HSE state the electricity must be isolated else where, so turning off the isolator on the consumer unit is not good enough to do work on the consumer unit, as least in theory, so to comply with HSE it could be an electrician has not option but to draw the DNO fuse, however he clearly does have an option as to replacing the fuse, and he should not replace it.

The same with Part P, it is permitted for an electrician to do emergency work and inform the LABC after the event, however now moving into let the courts decide which is clearly rather unsatisfactory we really need to know before if allowed.

I have gone to an interview armed with my certificates, and showed them at an interview, but never have I taken them to a job, only thing often required is proof of insurance. And for sole traders often firms ask for silly amounts of insurance cover, but an electrician, plumber (not gas safe), builder, or any other trade traditionally had guilds, or unions, and the guilds and unions could and did run closed shops, but in the Thatcher time the closed shop was stopped.

The scheme providers are not allowed to share information about people in their schemes and they has to be more than one scheme or it would break the law Thatcher made. So an electrician thrown out of one scheme can simply join another.
 
Short answer- you need an electrician who is a member of one of the self-certifying schemes. Otherwise you need to put a notice into Building Control and pay a fortune for them to supervise, inspect and certify the work.
If your electrician has a name or company name you can look them up to ensure their scheme membership is current
 
I know an electrician who worked for a firm fitting kitchens for the disabled, due to being for the disabled the LABC does not charge for planning, so they never bothered to get scheme membership, for the odd job which was not for the disabled they paid the £100 plus vat to LABC. So there are exceptions.

Today domestic is changing, we refereed to domestic electricians as house bashers, and were thought of as the lowest form of electrician, however solar panels, EV charging points, smart controlled central heating and other changes has resulted in domestic electricians having to learn new skills, and to get government grants pass more exams.

But be it plumber or electrician there are some who have never bothered upgrading, so because in the 70's they did this that or other, and it was considered OK they still do this, that or other. I don't tend to work with domestic electricians, I do however work with plumbers, who still do the work as it would have been done before the condensing modulated boiler was invented and have never changed their ways.
 
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Surely 'Domestic Electrician' is just a so-called category (don't like to say qualification) thought up - for acceptance of the less qualified - by NICEIC - other than, of course, simply what the words actually mean.
 
Short answer- you need an electrician who is a member of one of the self-certifying schemes. Otherwise you need to put a notice into Building Control and pay a fortune for them to supervise, inspect and certify the work.
... IF, that is, the work is notifiable - which, as you know, applies to very little electrical work (in England) these days.

Kind Regards, John
 
... IF, that is, the work is notifiable - which, as you know, applies to very little electrical work (in England) these days.

Kind Regards, John
Valid point- new consumer unit, new circuit or bathroom is about it now :)
 
Valid point- new consumer unit, new circuit or bathroom is about it now :)
Indeed so - in fact, only in the 'zones' of a bathroom - which, in practice, is only likely to relate to an electric shower, provided that the ceiling is at least 2.25m above floor level.

The 'spirit' of the law is clearly that any installation of a CU should be notifiable. However, those who 'try to be clever' can point out that what is actually said to be notifiable is only "replacing a CU" - so, they argue, would not apply to, say, installation of an 'additional' CU (which 'replaced' nothing) . However, as well as being silly, that argument won't get them very far, since installation of an additional CU will also inevitably involve installation of "new circuits", making the job as a whole notifiable :)

Kind Regards, John
 
What if one installs a new CU alongside an existing one and then transfers some but not all of the existing circuits to it :whistle:

Still I'd imagine that even with the more relaxed notification rules in england it would be pretty hard to trade as an electrician without doing any notifiable work.
 
What if one installs a new CU alongside an existing one and then transfers some but not all of the existing circuits to it :whistle:
These attempts to wriggle out of the notification rule are so silly that I'm not sure they are worth discussing. However, if we must talk about it, and if we were to be as pedantic as 'them', then it could be said that the law does not say whether the "replacement of a CU" (which is notifiable) has to be partial or complete - and I would have thought that what you are describing could be said to be a "partial replacement", since the function of the original CU in supplying some of the circuits had been 'replaced' by a different CU - hence notifiable!
Still I'd imagine that even with the more relaxed notification rules in england it would be pretty hard to trade as an electrician without doing any notifiable work.
That may be true, but I don't know enough about the spectrums of work undertaken by individual electricians to know how true it might be. I certainly know some electricians who appear to be able to keep busy without doing notifiable work.

I don't know if this is ever invoked in practice but, at the other end of the spectrum (very large jobs such as 'full re-wires'), the cost of notification if the work is done by someone who is not a scheme member may be fairly trivial in relation to the total cost of the job, and therefore may not be a major consideration?

Kind Regards, John
 
Short answer- you need an electrician who is a member of one of the self-certifying schemes. Otherwise you need to put a notice into Building Control and pay a fortune for them to supervise, inspect and certify the work.
Actually, they don't necessarily have to supervise and inspect the work. If the work is being done by someone who can provide a set of test results that BC will accept, then all they'll do is take those, file them, and give you a completion certificate.
For my LA, the fees are fairly simple for this sort of thing - a fixed price for electrical works :
  • Re-wiring not covered in Competent Persons Scheme £270.00
  • New circuits or consumer units £180.00
  • Single socket/light point £120.00
So, for example, if I were to replace a CU (which I will do when it gets to the top of a rather long "to do" list) it's only £180 to notify - and I'll be able to give them a set of test results. That's less than the labour cost to get a scam member to do it - especially looking for someone who'll do it to a standard acceptable to me.

The fees are set by the LAs, and in the past there have been comments suggesting that some of them charge "considerably more" - making DIY/non-scheme work significantly less attractive.
 

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