Electrics and building regs

[Ginnifer]

Hi,
Hopefully this is the right forum for this?
I bought a property last year which was completed in 2006 (I have the Building Control Completion certificate dated March 2006). Recently, I have been having trouble with a short on the circuit in the kitchen. An electrician has told me that, for various reasons, the electrics in the house do not comply with the regulations for when it was built and a Part P document would never have been issued for it.
I have tried all the self-certification boards, none of whom have any details on the property. The council cannot find anything either, but surely they are liable if they've signed off a property that does not comply with regulations?
Any help / advice much appreciated!

 

[deadshort]

Regulations at that time ? Or do not comply with current regulations ?

Thanks,

DS

 

[stillp]

An electrician has told me that, for various reasons, the electrics in the house do not comply with the regulations for when it was built and a Part P document would never have been issued for it.

Did he list those various reasons?

 

[Ginnifer]

Regulations at that time ? Or do not comply with current regulations ?

Thanks,

DS

Did he list those various reasons?

Yes - there's no RCD protection and no evidence of main gas and water earth bonding. Plus high readings in the neutral legs of the kitchen ring main. It doesn't comply with regulations now or when it was installed in his opinion.

 

[JohnD]

Are the incoming gas and water pipes metal, or plastic?

 

[Ginnifer]

Are the incoming gas and water pipes metal, or plastic?

I don't know - I'll have to check tonight when I get home, but the electrician seemed to think the earth bonding was necessary - and missing.

 

[JohnD]

yes, main bonds are certainly important, and it is very irregular to omit them, but at that age the pipes may well be plastic where they enter the house or come out of the ground, in which case there is no point in bonding them.

Plastic gas pipes are yellow, and water pipes, at that age, probably blue but might be black.

Photos would be useful.

 

[Ginnifer]

yes, main bonds are certainly important, and it is very irregular to omit them, but at that age the pipes may well be plastic, in which case there is no point in bonding them.

Plastic gas pipes are yellow, and water pipes, at that age, probably blue but might be black.

Photos would be useful.

Thanks @JohnD, I'll check tonight

 

[ban-all-sheds]

Yes - there's no RCD protection

That was not mandatory in 2006.

and no evidence of main gas and water earth bonding.

That might mean that (for whatever reason) it's not been found, not that there isn't any. Did he do any testing? Is this a flat?

Plus high readings in the neutral legs of the kitchen ring main.

And he knows that it was like that when installed, does he? He knows that it's not a case of something happening/being done in the last 10 years which has caused a problem?

It doesn't comply with regulations now or when it was installed in his opinion.

You may well have problems to fix. I don't know what you mean by "I have been having trouble with a short on the circuit in the kitchen"?), but none of the things you've listed could be responsible for a "short", whatever it is.

The "electrician" you have is wrong about at least one thing - what else is he getting wrong?

Lastly, IANAL, but I'm pretty sure that trying to get the council to accept liability for problems because it is alleged that they signed-off a non-compliant installation when
a) There does not seem to be any evidence that they did, and
b) It was 10 years ago and since then who knows who has done what
will be an utterly fruitless waste of time and money.

 

[JohnD]

OOI, I don't know much about gas, but in my road, a few of the houses had their drives dug up not long ago and the pipes changed, I think because the gas pipes went inside the houses in plastic, and it was changed to metal as a fire precaution. The houses are fairly modern. Mine was OK so I only heard about it by gossip.

 

[Ginnifer]

@ban-all-sheds Thanks for your comments. Its a house. My electrician (yes, he's a real one - registered and come recommended and everything!) can't say for certain what has happened since the house was built. He was concerned as, in his opinion, the consumer unit was not one which would have passed inspection in 2005 / 2006. In his view it dates from the mid 1980's. The short is in addition to this and is between the live and earth of the kitchen ring main - we can't find exactly where without digging more of the cable out of the plaster.
If there's any confusion, it's probably in my use of language, as I'm definitely not an electrician. Or even an "electrician".

 

[Mikefromlondon]

Regulations aside for the time being, have you found what is causing the short and how bad is it? has it caused any damage to the wiring and do you know if the wiring is in a proper 2.5mm T&E in a ring circuit format, because it is not unusual for cowboys to run ring mains sockets with a wrong size conductor, last week I went to change someone's oven and it was wired to a 1.5,, T&E, I informed the owner to the dangers of not using a correct size cable for power circuits which were on a 32A circuit breakers, so I advised him to downgrade that to 16A or 20A for immediate safety and get that wiring replaced with a 2.5 T&E.

But I can see from his reaction, he won't bother as he said all the wiring is buried in plaster and behind the tiles and units etc, so I told him it is his choice if he continues to use it as it is, his insurance would not cover him against any fire caused by bad wiring and incorrect size cable.

I also pointed out to him that new regulations with regards to gas hobs have now got be fed with copper pipes all the way, his hob was connected with a rubber hose, which is no longer permitted, he had this kitchen built/extended 3 years ago.

 

[JohnD]

photo of the CU would be nice as well.

 

[Ginnifer]

Thanks everyone. I'll post a pic of the consumer unit when I get home, but at the moment we've switched off the breaker for that area until we can work out who installed it all and when (and who signed it off!), or (more likely) I bite the bullet and pay to have the consumer unit replaced, the whole house tested and the kitchen ring main rewired.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

... until we can work out who installed it all and when (and who signed it off!) ...

An the point of that is....?