Electrics setup all strange after electrician has been out. Riddle inside (stiff drink needed)...

[PBC_1966]

PBC has said you already have all circuits protected by the RCD in your consumer unit.

I think you're getting mixed up with a different thread. I don't see an RCD anywhere here.....

 

[Mr. Clueless]

That's a FCU (Fused Connection Unit), or for the pedantic a SFCU. Probably a spur from the socket it is next to.

Yes they did talk about connecting it to the socket next to it.

I am guessing this doesn't mean i don't need one of those RCDs somewhere though?

As i understand it there's not one on the consumer unit, so with them adding these additional sockets & that switch for the sump pump i ask.......

....where would you expect to see an RCD in this setup?

 

[sparkwright]

If the electrician was only there to fit a few sockets in the lounge, it's odd you have this problem.

Presumably, for whatever reason, she has felt compelled to 'do' something somewhere which has caused this problem.

I don't really know what, perhaps something was in the way somewhere, and she moved it - who knows?

Only the electrician knows what she has and hasn't done - so she needs to come back - all we can do is guess and speculate.

Over the years I've observed the simplest of mistakes can cause some very confusing results - though I can't begin to think what may have occured here, bearing in mind she was primarily only there to add a few sockets - not alter light switches or rearrange circuits at the fuse box.

I'm fairly certain your electrician will sort it out.

 

[sparkwright]

By adding extra sockets and a sump pump off a socket - I would expect the RCD to be situated at the consumer unit (fuse box).

 

[Mr. Clueless]

By adding extra sockets and a sump pump off a socket - I would expect the RCD to be situated at the consumer unit (fuse box).

What would doing that (installing it there) entail?

We're not talking major rewire here are we? Is it a simple case of just putting it there & connecting some wires to it?

 

[securespark]

Most likely, yes.

Back to the lighting issues:

Have you had any wall switches or ceiling fittings removed and refitted or replaced with new?

 

[sparkwright]

To install an RCD to protect ONE socket circuit at your consumer unit, I would expect the circuit cable to be removed from the consumer unit. The cable would be connected to the out-going side of a stand-alone RCD unit, situated nearby. I would then run a cable from the now empty fuseway in the consumer unit, to the in-coming side of the stand-alone RCD unit.

Alternatively, I would talk you into replacing your consumer unit in it's entirity. This way all your circuits could be upgraded to have RCD protection - thus meaning you won't have any similar problems in the future if the other circuits should need RCD protection.

 

[Mr. Clueless]

thanks sparkwright.

securespark - nope, no new fittings.


I'm drafting up this email to the guy now. Regards this RCD - should the electrician have put one in place as part of the task they were brought out to do (install new sockets & set up ready for a sump pump install)

or would that not be part of THAT job?

 

[sparkwright]

Have any walls been removed? (often when a wall gets removed a girder has to be put in, and any cables in the way get cut and jointed)

 

[stillp]

PBC has said you already have all circuits protected by the RCD in your consumer unit.

I think you're getting mixed up with a different thread. I don't see an RCD anywhere here.....

Yes, I think I was.

 

[Mr. Clueless]

Nope no walls removed.

Honestly - floorboards up, joists out, new joists in, sockets put in, new floorboards down, wire up. (including other things like tanking, plastering & such).

That's basically it. Now if someone has cut a wire somewhere or whatever then i don't know, but that was basically the job.


And do you know if they should've installed an RCD as part of that job? I don't want to start telling them what they should've & shouldn't have done if they didn't HAVE to do something & it would only be an 'advised' thing to do instead of a necessity.

 

[Adam_151]

And do you know if they should've installed an RCD as part of that job? I don't want to start telling them what they should've & shouldn't have done if they didn't HAVE to do something & it would only be an 'advised' thing to do instead of a necessity.

BS7671 has, since 2008 required general purpose socket outlets* and cabling concealed at less than 50mm deep to be protected by 30mA RCD*. Now the regulations are not retrospective, therefore you don't have to update your house each time a new requirement is added, however. If one is adding new socket outlets or new concealed cabling, then the new bits must comply with the regulations


*any socket outlet that is not specifically labelled and located for one item of equipment - eg fridge freezer
**There are exceptions regarding installations under the control of skilled people... but these do not apply to houses

 

[securespark]

Are the sockets and wiring all surface-mounted? In which case you may not need RCD protection to the wiring but you should have sRCD's (RCD protected sockets).

But if the wiring is flush-mounted less than 50mm deep, it should be protected by 30mA RCD.

In certain circumstances sockets can be installed without RCD protection, but most sockets need it.

 

[Mr. Clueless]

Are the sockets and wiring all surface-mounted? In which case you may not need RCD protection to the wiring but you should have sRCD's (RCD protected sockets).

But if the wiring is flush-mounted less than 50mm deep, it should be protected by 30mA RCD.

In certain circumstances sockets can be installed without RCD protection, but most sockets need it.

I'd love to be able to answer you but i can only make a noise like Scooby Doo i'm afraid.

Are they surface mounted? Well, there's faceplates on the wall & there's back boxes that on one wall have been put in to plasterboard & in other walls they've been put in to the actual wall itself. All metal back boxes.

The wiring is all hidden. It snakes around the underfloor tagged on to joists here & there & then run up behind skirting (on plastered walls) or plasterboard (on boarded walls).


Hope this helps?

 

[oldbutnotdead]

Yep- confirms to me that your 'electrician' has no plans to do the job properly. There are a few scenarios (to be fair to your builder)- builder may have called 'electrician' to fit some extra sockets to a ring in blissful ignorance of current requirements. 'Electrician' should have come back to builder 5 minutes after arriving on site to tell him 'wiring is old, if we add sockets we'll need an RCD on them'. Builder should then have phoned/found you & explained that the extra sockets are going to cost more than quoted due to etc etc, what do you want to do? To comply with current building regs (which is what you are meant to do when you start adding things) an RCD is required to protect those buried cables.

Did you measure the new joists? Again, your old floor was a floor, requirements at construction time were probably limited to it being more or less horizontal without too many holes. Having ripped it (and the joists) out and replaced with new joists and floor, your new floor ought to comply with current building regulations regarding joist widths, depths, spacing and thermal resistance. Unlike the sockets, this is notifiable- see earlier posts.

At the end of the day it is your house. Assuming timber sizes and spacings are correct, cost of compliance would be x sheets of 100mm celotex or 150mm polystyrene between the joists (celotex £10/sq metre, polystyrene a lot less) and an RCD on that ring final (messy way is external RCD or internal RCBO just on that circuit, £50. Nicer way would be new CU but the testing involved would bump the price up). It is unlikely that the building police will hunt you down like a dog, if you're not planning on selling the place in the near future then the non-compliance will probably not come back to bite you.

Still doesn't explain why your lighting switching is FUBAR. You sure it wasn't just down to you grabbing a handful of wires (in the Alarms section) trying to shut the thing up .