Electrocuted

[kkynaston]

Anyone seen the article in The Sun today?
A woman was electrocuted in her rented house which they had just moved into when she touched a live tap.
The cause was apparently a faulty heater and lack of earthing to the bath.
It also states that an inspection had not been done since 81.

 

[ericmark]

I think I read same thing on BBC web site see here it is saying recommendation is not law and there is nothing to force landlords to test?

 

[holmslaw]

..

 

[DaveSinner]

I think I read same thing on BBC web site see here it is saying recommendation is not law and there is nothing to force landlords to test?

problem is, mate of mines landlord has the electrics tested every five years. But in reality his mate comes round and does it. so itll never fail.

ill see if i can get a photo of the cooker cable for you next time im there. Im sure i could find 20 faults on visual checks alone

 

[ericmark]

Whom is responsible for any electrical installation? We have all watch these TV from hell series and the builder is to blame! But the whole job was over seen by building control so why was the builder not building control not to blame?

It is hard when the person at fault is not the person responsible. I would consider where it is recommended that a property is inspected and tested very 10 years or on change of ownership then if this is not done the person controlling the property should be liable for any injuries or deaths as a result having obviously shown a dereliction of duty.

However cases like this are decided in court and once a ruling is made this goes into case law.

But does the "Coroner" make case law? Or does he just decide the cause of death?

So who got it wrong!
1) At some point a Plumber must have fitted the bath without bonding.
But it says a combination of faults so likely many others have also missed things.
The no earth scenario is all too common where originally the water, gas, oil etc. would have given a property an earth. At some point work likely by non electrical personal has removed the earth.
It does not matter if it is the cavity wall insulator pumping insulation around the meter tails. Or the loft isolator placing insulation on a shower supply. Or a plumber replacing metallic pipes with plastic. Many of the electrical faults are caused by semi-skilled people doing work for which they have not received the correct training for.

To be fair the Plumber is trained as to what needs doing when he fits metallic parts. But installing insulation is not a trade and as a result there is no real standard to which operators need to be trained to.

As to management training that also seems lacking. If one manages a shop the responsibility does not stop a ensuring workers are paid and stock is ordered they must also ensure the electrical equipment is inspected and tested and there seems even with those who try to be a gap where the installation is tested and hand tools are tested but no one is appointed to inspect and test the washing machine.

There is only one place this can take place and for everyone to know what is required. They use to teach how to fit a plug at school but these life skills have been pushed out so they can get good scores in league tables.

I am not saying people should be taught to PAT test at school but when I was a school we were taken on visits to farms, factories, and shops and we had the job explained to us not by teachers but the people who did the jobs and we left knowing a little about most jobs.

Now they all seem to be trained in IT at the expense of all the other jobs.

 

[ericmark]

I have now found more reports Daily Mail Birmingham Mail Belfast Telegraph The Telegraph This is Cornwall and many more see here

What I now see was the faulty appliance was an oil filled heater so although the lack of earth leakage trip and earth bonding were why the fault was able to kill someone in the bath the faults in the building electrical system did not cause the death.

Surely the call should have been to set up a system where people could take their electrical equipment to be tested especially after it has been transported many miles and likely bumped many times in the move.

It seems Mr Whittall had raised the matter of no RCD and an electrician had be asked to check out the property but the Whittall's had moved in before this had been completed and had not used plug in RCD's while waiting for the work to be done.

It is odd as one reads through different reports how the slant is changed! I think for any news paper to suggest in any way that the Whittall's were any way to blame would be seen as tactless and I first found out about RCD protection back in 1980's but it was 1990 before I fitted it in my house. I would think we are all the same once we find out there is a safety issue we don't tend to do it immediately but just add it to the "to do" list and it seems that is what happened here. But unfortunately the death occurred before it had been got around to. Had Mrs Thompson said they can't move in yet until the electrics have been checked likely it would have upset the Whittall's and in hind sight that is what Mrs Thompson should have done be it's easy to work out in hind sight.

The stories don't all seem to match unless Mrs Whittall was holding the electric oil filled heater in the bath to heat the water and I am sure she was not. This means non of us really know what happened but I think it is right to raise issues like this so we can try to avoid a repeat of the tragic death.

As to what we could do to stop this I am not sure. When asked to inspect and test and there is going to be a big delay should we do a quick visual to see general condition first? From reports it was after re-wired costing £4000 so I would have thought any electrician having a quick look would have quickly said there's a lot wrong here? But again hind sight is easy and in reality I would think that is unreasonable!

 

[electronicsuk]

From your collation of the various news stories, my best guess would be that she touched the heater (perhaps to adjust it) while in the bath, the casing of which was live due to an internal L-E fault.

For the casing to become live and not trip any protective device means there must have been a lack of low impedance earthing to the heater's metalwork, but whether that was via faulty cord or plug wiring or due to the installation is another question. It could have also been due to lack of working RCD with TT earth, or poor/no incoming earth with a TN supply.

In any case, no amount of supplementary equipotential bonding in the bathroom would have decreased the shock risk in this scenario. In fact, it likely would have increased the risk of fatality, as there would be a chance of touching an exposed live part and well earthed metalwork at the same time with different parts of the body.

Any idea if the heater was portable or fixed? There's a good reason we don't tend to install sockets in the bathroom if it was the former...

EDIT: Ok, so having read some of the other articles after posting this, it seems that my guess was way out. I had somehow got the idea that the shock was via touching the radiator, not the taps.

 

[RF Lighting]

From what I read, it seems that the main earth to the property had corroded, leaving a bad Ze.

There was a VO ELCB installed but the loss of earth renders that useless.

The heater (a portable appliance) had a L>E fault which livened up the entire installation including all the pipework in the house.

Supplementary bonding may have helped, but I don't think it would have done in this situation.

 

[ColJack]

says she hit her head in the birmingham mail..

 

[ericmark]

says she hit her head in the birmingham mail..

I also noticed that. Would be interesting to read actual report but not enough to buy it.
I does point out however how careful we have to be reaching conclusions if the death was the result of jumping due to shock and hitting head the shock could have been very small.
Like falling of a ladder when adjusting aerial.

As to making a law I would have thought we have enough already and no one is suggesting the testing was not done because it did not have to be done. It was not done because of time restraints. It was already planned but waiting on electrician to have time to do it.

 

[ColJack]

it absolutely should be law..

you have to get your car checked every year at your own cost to make sure it's safe to use, so why not your house electrics..

it is afterall THE deadliest thing in your house if it goes wrong..
some may argue that gas is, but you can smell gas so there is a warning.
some may say carbon monoxide from a faulty gas appliance, but for £30 or so you can get an alarm that warns you if it detects higher than usual levels.
some may say fire, but again you fit alarms..

there is no warning if your electrics are faulty..

 

[bernardgreen]

The inspection after the incident found 175 volts present on the taps. Relative to what ?

If it was relative to water in the bath then that suggests there was some form of insulation between taps and the metal of the (reported as) enamel bath. Or were the taps on the wall and not mounted in the bath. In which case a metal drain from the bath to earth would provide a good earth to the water while a fault elsewhere ( the heater ? ) has raised internal pipe work to the 175 volts.

Was that an induced voltage due to capacitive coupling. Was it measured with a high impedence meter ?

It may have given a small shock that was enough to cause the casualty to fall.

 

[bernardgreen]

As to making a law I would have thought we have enough already and no one is suggesting the testing was not done because it did not have to be done. It was not done because of time restraints. It was already planned but waiting on electrician to have time to do it.

How long would it have taken to fit an 30mA RCD between meter and consumer units.

Following the set procedure of having to complete testing of the installation before fitting the RCU would take a long time.

Just fitting it irrespective of the state of the wiring would be less than 30 minutes and provided some protection until the wiring could be up-dated.

 

[kkynaston]

How long would it have taken to fit an 30mA RCD between meter and consumer units.

Following the set procedure of having to complete testing of the installation before fitting the RCU would take a long time.

Just fitting it irrespective of the state of the wiring would be less than 30 minutes and provided some protection until the wiring could be up-dated.

This is exactly what I did when a friend moved into a rented house recently as the landlord was not bothered. Sure there would have been disruption to all circuits but it was a bit of extra protection to the old ceramic fuse box.

 

[VanSolo]

The inspection after the incident found 175 volts present on the taps. Relative to what ?

If it was relative to water in the bath then that suggests there was some form of insulation between taps and the metal of the (reported as) enamel bath. Or were the taps on the wall and not mounted in the bath. In which case a metal drain from the bath to earth would provide a good earth to the water while a fault elsewhere ( the heater ? ) has raised internal pipe work to the 175 volts.

Was that an induced voltage due to capacitive coupling. Was it measured with a high impedence meter ?

It may have given a small shock that was enough to cause the casualty to fall.

If there was voltage between the taps and the metal drain, perhaps she has stood on the plug hole and touched the taps