Emmersion heater

[simongraham]

Hello,

I have just moved into a new flat. i was led to believe the flat had economy 7 but that appears to be false. the water tank looks just like a standard tank with a insulating jacket on it and there is a power switch next to it.

Now although this is annoying its not the end of the world. however i am a little worried about the wiring....

the switch is a very old switch, the cable which comes from this again looks a bit old but then just goes into what looks like an earth / cable block which is then all taped up with electrical tape.

Is this A) Safe? and B)legal?

Any help greatly received.

Simon.
ps. if anyone has a better solution please advise.

 

[breezer]

pictures would help
see forum information as to how to post pics

 

[simongraham]

hi,

sorry i can't get a pic to you as yet - dont have internet access at the new flat.

 

[Steve]

With economy 7 you have 2 fuse boxes/consumer units. Have you checked this, or are you simply looking at the immersion heater? I wouldnt think you would be able to tell just from looking at the tank. Anything which has been taped up should be untaped and connected in appropriate boxes.

 

[simongraham]

i've had a look at the meter and fusebox etc. it appears to be just a normal electricity supply. no extra switches or other signs of eco7.

would a simple junction box be suitable or would i need something different?

thanks,

Simon

 

[kai]

Have a closer look, if you are on traditional single rate electricity, there should be only ONE B16 MCB way feeding a fuse-connection unit feeding the single immersion element.

If you are on economy seven supply, there should be TWO B16 MCB ways feeding two fuse-connection units, one labelled "DAY" feeding the top element, and the other labelled "Night" feeding the bottom element.

This should be the arrangement on a correctly installed immersion circuit(s), with a 13 amp fuse in each one.

 

[Steve]

isnt there a clock and 2 meters on economy 7? Or am i thinking of the old version that we had in our house with electric storage heaters we had 2 meters, 2 cu's, a mass of meter tails, then the REC came and rewired our street and took away the 2nd meter!

how does the electric co know how much electric you have used at cheap rate if you only have the one meter and cu? im confused. if the clock switches over to cheap rate meter / cu at night, how do the circuits on the day cu work? does this sound stupid? sorry if its a really obvious answer but this is something thats always puzzled me!

 

[mapj1]

there are two measurent counters in the meter, but only one or the other is active, and the change over is either by clock, or the radio 4 time signal, depending on the age of the installation. Additionally there is another output leg from the meter tht is only live when the 'cheap rate' is on - this may be used for the tank heater or electric radiators etc.

 

[simongraham]

there is no fuse in the switch - it is an older switch.

there is only one switch near the emmersion heater - i'm thinking that this setup is looking more and more dodgy as we go along.

i think i need to get onto the Landlord about it.

does anyone have any safety guidlines that i could show to the landlord to get something done about it?

cheers,

Simon.

 

[mapj1]

You don't need always need a switch fuse - for example if it is supplied by a 16A circuit breaker. There is no range of fault currents at which a 13A fuse will blow before a 16A breaker, and to have both violates the regulation requiring discrimination between protective measures. You should however be able to isolate the heating element with a double pole switch within easy reach of the cylinder - usually in or beside the airing cupboard.
http://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Book/6.5.3.htm for 'off peak' circuits and immersion heaters.
http://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Figures/Graphs.htm for circuit breaker curves of current versus time-to-trip.

 

[kai]

You don't need always need a switch fuse - for example if it is supplied by a 16A circuit breaker. There is no range of fault currents at which a 13A fuse will blow before a 16A breaker, and to have both violates the regulation requiring discrimination between protective measures.

Er-Um... I was taught that this was a standard method of installation for a household 13amp circuit, be it a wall heater, or immersion. A B16 breaker in 2.5.sq.mm feeding a 13amp FCU, and flex to appliance.

Isn't it a case where there is a 50/50 chance of the 13amp fuse blowing before the B16 MCB trips out?

 

[mapj1]

And that violates the requirement for clear discrimination between protective measures..... I admit its only a '4' in PIR speak, but its not really a good thing to reccomend from the outset. The 13A fuse adds nothing to safety, and some confusion to fault finding, if the MCB is 16A.

 

[plugwash]

on the other hand removing a fuse provides a means of isolation that is very unlikely to get turned back on by mistake (with some FCUS you can pull out the fuseholder completely with others like the new MK ones you can remove the fuse and then put a padlock through the fuseholder!). Having this next to the appliance itself sounds like it could be very handy for making sure the power to the immersion heater doesn't get restored by mistake when you are working on it/

 

[securespark]

does anyone have any safety guidlines that i could show to the landlord to get something done about it?

Who is your council and who is your landlord?

There are many guidlines. Generally the place should have a PIR certificate detailing all is well. Check it is up to date.

Google your council and "electrical safety in rented accommodation" to find out more.

 

[simongraham]

Thanks i will look into the PIR certificate and make sure they have one up to date.

my council is runnymead in Surrey. the landlord is a company that own lots of properties.

Simon.