Tesco's cheap incandescent bulbs used to be pence per pair. Saving power is one thing, but what is the total energy cost of designing, manufacturing and distributing these expensive fittings?
Energy saving
- Thread starter tony1851
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Tesco's cheap incandescent bulbs used to be pence per pair. Saving power is one thing, but what is the total energy cost of designing, manufacturing and distributing these expensive fittings?
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That would not really be a fair comparison though - you're suggesting that they have a bigger impact because they need to be researched developed and manufactured etc... and are comparing them to an already existing technology... without necessarily taking into account what the original technology took to develop?
Personally, I'm sick and tired of all this 'save-the-planet' stuff.
The planet will still be here long after we are gone.
What's the use of use putting up acres of PV panels and turbines and suchlike, while the Chinese and others are building coal-fired power stations at fifty to the dozen?
The Western word is trying to take some sort of moral stand, while the rest of the world is laughing at us.
When economic well-being is at stake, a sentimental morality plays no part.
The planet will still be here long after we are gone.
What's the use of use putting up acres of PV panels and turbines and suchlike, while the Chinese and others are building coal-fired power stations at fifty to the dozen?
The Western word is trying to take some sort of moral stand, while the rest of the world is laughing at us.
When economic well-being is at stake, a sentimental morality plays no part.
so your argument for not being environmentally conscious is because others aren't... ?
way to get the ball rolling
way to get the ball rolling
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so your argument for not being environmentally conscious is because others aren't... ?
way to get the ball rolling
The approach of behaving nicely (or 'responsibly'?) in the hope that others will follow our lead does not work in international politics.
International politics is the politics of the school playground - ie everyone for himself.
The UK contributes about 2% to atmospheric pollution .We could decimate what's left of our industry; ration power to homes and businesses, and make it illegal to drive more than 100 mies per week, and thereby probably cut total world emmisions by 1%.
And will everyone else follow our lead? Get real.
As a species we always have look for something to worry about. In the 1960s experts were warning us about the coming Ice Age; then its ozone, then Aids, and now global waarming. In 30 years time, people will look back at us and think how stupid we were to worry about it.
Turn the heating back up, get the car out, and stop fretting.
Yes, the UK, in 2008 equated to just under 2% of the worlds emissions. The EU as a whole were responsible for about 14% (china for an estimated 24% and USA 18%). Seeing as the rules and regulations we have governing energy savings are EU wide then actually those changes and demands we impose here DO have a significant impact - because they not only affect our 2% but are also being reduced by other EU countries to lower the combined 14%.
However, it's not only about emmissions Tony, its also about energy consumption (in fact its probably moreso about that).
With estimates on oil reserves suggesting that in 40-50 years we will be up the creek it is absolutely right to encourage the development of alternative energy solutions which not only includes enhancing micro-generation devices as well as large scale renewables but also includes reducing the energy demand and the way in which people view and use energy.
Changing peoples attitudes towards energy will increase the demand for low energy solutions which in turn encourages the development of appropriate technologies into financially viable options and attractive business propositions.
Part of this must also include lowering the energy use of every day items because more than simply lowering a persons energy bills (the cost of which will continue to rise) the effect will be that as and when lower yield energy resources are implemented their production can be in line with demand.
If other countries do not wish to prepare for future challenges than that is their own look out... but at least when the finite fuels are exhausted we will have created a legacy that will ensure that future generations can continue to enjoy a good quality of life.
There are unfortunately far too many people (more so in this country than in europe) that are far too flippant on the issues that will face future generations thanks largely to their selfish attitudes.
However, it's not only about emmissions Tony, its also about energy consumption (in fact its probably moreso about that).
With estimates on oil reserves suggesting that in 40-50 years we will be up the creek it is absolutely right to encourage the development of alternative energy solutions which not only includes enhancing micro-generation devices as well as large scale renewables but also includes reducing the energy demand and the way in which people view and use energy.
Changing peoples attitudes towards energy will increase the demand for low energy solutions which in turn encourages the development of appropriate technologies into financially viable options and attractive business propositions.
Part of this must also include lowering the energy use of every day items because more than simply lowering a persons energy bills (the cost of which will continue to rise) the effect will be that as and when lower yield energy resources are implemented their production can be in line with demand.
If other countries do not wish to prepare for future challenges than that is their own look out... but at least when the finite fuels are exhausted we will have created a legacy that will ensure that future generations can continue to enjoy a good quality of life.
There are unfortunately far too many people (more so in this country than in europe) that are far too flippant on the issues that will face future generations thanks largely to their selfish attitudes.
If Tony wants to tip his money down the drain by wasting energy, let him.
I have good insulation and energy saving lightbulbs, and good heating controls.
At the moment you can buy CFLs from Wilkinsons for £1.99, or £3.50 if you wantt the prestige of shopping at Tesco.
However being a sensible fellow I stocked up last year at 50p per lamp in Wickes when they were subsidised by EDF.
Energy saving is worthwhile purely from the point of view of saving costs. 20 years ago there was no point topping up your average 100mm mineral wool in the loft. Now your throwing money away if you haven't got at least 300mm. Good LED fittings are well worth it today. And the savings will multiply as fuel costs rise and rise.
J
joinerjohn
I think tony's point is the development, manufacturing and actual cost to consumers, wipes out any savings. Probably more so when you take into consideration the cost of disposal of these (more so the CFL's) Anyone know the carbon footprint cost of producing CFL's? I wouldn't even know where to start looking.
try Friends of the Earth. They looked into it.
As for cost to the consumer, 10,000 hours x 22W = 220kWh (say, £30 of electricity) plus £1.99 for the CFL
10,000 hours x 100W = 1000kWh (say, £140 of electricity) plus 10 filament lamps at what? 25p? 50p? £2.50 or £5 for the lamps
The 1000kWh of electricity from filament lamps of course contributes to global climate change, to carbon footprint, and if from burning coal, pollution, and putting more mercury in the environment than is used in a CFL
As for cost to the consumer, 10,000 hours x 22W = 220kWh (say, £30 of electricity) plus £1.99 for the CFL
10,000 hours x 100W = 1000kWh (say, £140 of electricity) plus 10 filament lamps at what? 25p? 50p? £2.50 or £5 for the lamps
The 1000kWh of electricity from filament lamps of course contributes to global climate change, to carbon footprint, and if from burning coal, pollution, and putting more mercury in the environment than is used in a CFL
Luis;
Tell all this to the 500+ men who lost their jobs at the Lynemouth aluminium smelter last year.
The owner of the site, Alcan, cited high energy costs for the closure of the plant and will move smelting to a location where energy costs and environmental legislation are not so acute.
Result? Five-hundrd people here loose their jobs, and not one gramme less CO2 is pumped into the atmosphere - it's just pumped in from somewhere else.
It's nothing short of immoral.
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All of this Global Warming/CO2 stuff will all be forgotten about when the Fusion problem is cracked.
So all of the burning of fossil fuels will be forgotten and we will no longer be dependant on Oil, Coal, or Gas and we can all heat and light our homes without a thought to Man Made Global Warming.
Just what we will do with all of the Helium I haven't thought about yet.
Another thing to remember is that burning Methane/Natural gas is a good thing for the Planet as Methane is a far greater threat to the Green House effect than CO2,(I think it is ten times worse than CO2) so burning Methane will save us all from overheating and all done whilst we wait for the Fusion wonder world.
Just think, when the fusion problem is cracked and mini fusion reactors developed for mobile use in cars, you will buy a car that will never need refuelling and when you buy it, it will include all the energy it will ever need. The only problem I have with this Utopia is that I will be dead and buried before it happens, so I may as well burn up all of the methane I can so it never gets into the atmosphere, just for the sake of my Grand children you understand.
So all of the burning of fossil fuels will be forgotten and we will no longer be dependant on Oil, Coal, or Gas and we can all heat and light our homes without a thought to Man Made Global Warming.
Just what we will do with all of the Helium I haven't thought about yet.
Another thing to remember is that burning Methane/Natural gas is a good thing for the Planet as Methane is a far greater threat to the Green House effect than CO2,(I think it is ten times worse than CO2) so burning Methane will save us all from overheating and all done whilst we wait for the Fusion wonder world.
Just think, when the fusion problem is cracked and mini fusion reactors developed for mobile use in cars, you will buy a car that will never need refuelling and when you buy it, it will include all the energy it will ever need. The only problem I have with this Utopia is that I will be dead and buried before it happens, so I may as well burn up all of the methane I can so it never gets into the atmosphere, just for the sake of my Grand children you understand.
Multinationals moving to underdeveloped countries with cheap labour is nothing new
Do we really, REALLY know for sure that man's activities contribute to climate change?
Things never stay the same - look at the Ice Ages.
And if Scotland ended up like the south of France, and the south of France ended up like the Sahara, then so what? Humans are resourceful and will adapt to change.
In terms of labour, Lynemouth was an efficient plant - it's the energy costs of its associated coal-fired power station which killed it.
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