"England Our England"

[kendor]

If you hate the system so much then you know what to do at the election booth vote the tories in.......... in a couple of years when all the assets have been sold off to the private sector ( the french, chinese, russians etc etc etc) then you find yourself out of a job you'll realise it's better the devil you know than one you can't trust.
Even if i felt that labour had done an appalling job in office which in fact I believe they have done a reasonable job in term, I still would not vote for the tories after the thatcher years or any of her cronies from that time as i think they were the most corrupt politicians this country has ever seen.
and so blatant with it towards the end of their term in power.

So for all of those that oppose the EU and loss of power to others you'd be voting the right party in to make matters worse.

At least once it's all sold off, you won't have to worry about how badly British industry is doing as it won't be british anymore

 

[masona]

Kendor, I hate them all
Remember Kinnock & Patten both failed politicians rejected by the english people who now have more power as a commissioners and that is the future which Blair is buying for himself and the price is England. Blair doesn't care about you, me or even Brown.
Why should Blair allow to get away with it to sell England down the river just to get what he want?

 

[kendor]

Then take my advice, vote them in but don't be surprised when you hear the words " I TOLD YOU SO"
It's the only way some of the younger ones will experience how bad it is under tory rule and will see that it wasn't half as bad as they thought under labour.

 

[masona]

I don't think there will be ever any parties to make everyone happy, would be impossible and there will always be someone not happy whoever in power.

 

[kendor]

I don't think there will be ever any parties to make everyone happy, would be impossible and there will always be someone not happy whoever in power.

Exactly right there Mas, Given a few years in power, most people get fed up with the government, it would be interesting to see how some of the more politically outspoken on this forum would do in the job of trying to run the country, I can imagine the chaos that would ensue
Too many Back seat drivers methinks.

 

[Damocles]

Blair was doing very well. A right wing socialist government. All very middle of the road. Then he blew it by going off to war in Iraq. Stupid move, just because he wanted to get all statesmanlike.So he ends up lying right left and centre to defend the decisions he took. All quite reminiscent of Maggie, who finally sucumbed to her own reputation that the lady's not for turning. All politicians make mistakes. If they can not somehow change their minds and stop making matters worse they have had it.

 

[Freddie]

All politicians make mistakes. If they can not somehow change their minds and stop making matters worse they have had it.

Yeah i know what you mean its a bit like some people on forums who even though they have been shown they havent a clue what they are on about they still keep rambling on even though they trip theirselves up and contradict theirselves time and time again isnt it Damocles??????

Iraq Iraq Iraq Iraq Iraq Iraq Iraq Iraq Iraq Iraq Iraq Iraq Iraq Iraq Iraq Iraq

 

[jasy]

It doesn't when i have to read some of the sh*t posts you put on here!!

you can read then?

 

[david and julie]

So for all of those that oppose the EU and loss of power to others you'd be voting the right party in to make matters worse

To be honest I can't see what difference it would make whether you voted Lab, Lib or Tory because they all support EU anyway. This is one of the major gripes of people such as me, who don't want more integration. Until UKIP (which are probably a waste of time) we haven't had any say on the matter anyway.

At least once it's all sold off, you won't have to worry about how badly British industry is doing as it won't be british anymore

I would of thought most government stock has allready gone now anyway. You have to bear in mind though that with privatisations, from a government perspective, they are a win win situation. They unload companies both bad and good and get paid for them. Once the companies (which were often poorly managed due of restrictive practices or Gov interference) are in profit, the gov gets corporation tax off them, all with no risk at all to Gov. The public have also gained from either more choice or cheaper products in some, but not many, cases too.

In any of the above instances de-nationalisation can be a good thing. Where it is wrong is with the likes of the Railways, which was pure dogma and a way of relieving the public of large tracts of land. This was all they wanted and could be likened to theft really, especially when the sale realised less than the land values and we are now back where we were, less the profitable land section.

This current Gov's obsession with PPP's and PFI's for all new public building schemes, are no different really though. Red or Blue, public assets are still ending up in private hands.

 

[Damocles]

The thing about PFIs is they do not count as government debt. Borrow the money to build a hospital and it is government debt. Get someone to build one for you and then pay them a 'service charge' for the next 50 years and it is not debt. Hard to see how this is going to save the taxpayer one penny but it does allow the government to be very proud of reducing borrowing.

Bet they do not have PFI in Iraq.

 

[david and julie]

As you rightly say it is hard to see how it saves the taxpayer money, I would say that this is because it doesn't. It is a perfect example of how (all parties) play with words, they are actually trying to con us into thinking they are investing more on public services,when really they are just committing us to more debt. In some instances it is even worse because they auction the old properties off and then sign up for a PFI on a new site.

I once watched a programme about a PFI where the backers built a job centre. They borrowed the money over the term of the contract including interest (like a mortgage) they then then subbed every aspect out, design, building, fitting out, ongoing maintenance everything, right down to the gardners, cleaners, decorating etc, they then added the lot up and added 25% mark up. The Gov spokesmen said it was a good deal for the public because it saves the public any over-run costs due to unforeseen build problems. It would be very interesting to see who owns these service providers!

 

[Damocles]

Have to agree. I do not see how any private company will act as agent on the government's behalf to finance and run anything without getting a good mark-up. And ultimately the responsibility if it gets cocked up still comes back on the government.

Anyone fancy the chances for the next government IT contract to actually do what it is supposed to? In fact, does anyone know an example where a large government contract given to the private sector has actually worked?