EV Charging
- Thread starter BigBarney
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Go watch ev man on youtube. Talks you through everything https://youtube.com/c/ElectricVehicleMan
Personally, I wouldn't touch an EV with a bargepole.
Short range, severe loss of value as the battery becomes unusable.
We are already being warned of power cuts because we cannot generate enough electricity already. If EVs become more popular, that situation will become even worse.
Short range, severe loss of value as the battery becomes unusable.
We are already being warned of power cuts because we cannot generate enough electricity already. If EVs become more popular, that situation will become even worse.
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The problem with letting people make up their own minds is that they don't. They will listen to the hype and then when we all HAVE to have electric cars, which will not make a blind bit of difference to the climate, our grid wont be able to cope without a massive massive investment from government to energy companies which will not happen and then we will be way up the creek without a paddle.
As said I wouldn't have an EV or a hybrid even if they were giving them away but then I am of an age when it, probably, wont affect me anyway. Cue elall and co.
Oh yeah and just to add I have just boughtg a brand new polluting petrol car delivery due December the first.
I agree. Actually, I don't think there will be a long-term problem with EV charging overwhelming the grid, because people will realise before too long that there isn't enough electricity for our normal domestic needs AND a nation full of EVs.
As to be expected, the government has no idea about what to do either on this EV business or, for that matter, any other problems facing us!
At the risk of being wrong, I predict that ICE cars will not be banned in 2030!
I'm 70 and my wife is 61, and I'm absolutely sure that both of us will still be driving our ICE car, or a like replacement, long after 2030.
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I also have to agree with @JBR and @Fred Blogs I have seen the problems with EV vehicles with the disabled, and the problems rescuing some one who can't get into a wagons crew cab to be rescued when the recharging point they intended to use was not working, and the failed to reach the next one.
I have tripped over loops of cable left when putting a car on charge. And talked to the owners who are often surprised to find out 22 kW charge point is only charging at 7 kW as their car can only use one phase.
I looked at the BBC news where they were saying how a new charging hub the largest in the country was opened in Rhyl which could charge 35 cars, but Rhyl is a sea side town, which has 1000's of visitors a day, a filling station with 4 pumps at 10 minutes to refuel can refuel 48 cars in 2 hours, very few take 10 minutes to refuel, so in a town with so many visitors looking at needing a 100 charging points at least with 22 kW each, if down to 7 kW then looking at 350 charging points at least, once it takes over an hour we note many leave their cars on the outlet all day, and this is causing a problem at where I work.
We have two charging points, but although at 22 kW they can recharge a car a reasonable amount in an hour, and train ride takes 2 hours, so we can expect to charge 6 cars a working day, most the cars seem to only charge at 7 kW, so after their train ride, they will have a meal or find some other activity to extend the time to let it recharge, which means the charge point is often got two cars charging and cars wanting to use the charger.
Charging at home does mean only tourist towns needs load of charging points, but the big question is how safe is charging at home?
The number of times there is a loss of PEN is low, and we can fit devices which can detect loss of PEN, and disconnect should that happen, but the question is how fast will it detect a loss of PEN, many use the voltage and if out of the range 207 - 253 it auto disconnects, but in an estate of homes with solar panels the big question is how long before it disconnects, and what are the chances of some animal be it human or other touching the vehicle before it fails safe?
The simple answer is we don't know, the same for batteries going on fire when being charged, or in an accident, with a slow take up I am sure we will work out what needs to be done, the National grid was started between the wars, and the last village to get a supply from it was within the last 20 years, so we can expect a similar time scale to upgrade it for the extra capacity required.
But as electricians what we are faced with is how to install a safe charging point. If we look at court cases, we often say "there by the grace of god go I" be it a bad EICR or a missing earth wire, in the main we get away with actions like using an electricians mate for things he was not trained to do. What I look at with EV charging points is the way the advice seems to change, and one has to produce paperwork which means even in 20 years time, people will know you fitted it.
I saw it with my parents house, guy came to fit underfloor electric heating, and offered to change whole consumer unit for one with RCD's for an extra £100 (this would be around 2006) he was working for a bathroom fitter, rather than direct for my dad, and when the bathroom fitter went under, we had nothing to tell us who the electrician was, so unable to go back to him.
However I found the house had no earth, he had tried to use the old telephone party line earth, a bare wire less than 2.5 mm² for whole house, which was broken anyway, I got DNO to give him TN-C-S and corrected the error without any real problem. This must happen 1000's of times, a fault is found and corrected and the electrician is not even told he made an error.
That is until some one is killed, then people take a lot more trouble to find out who made the error, I have wondered if over 10 years one could say it was owners fault for not getting an EICR done? But seems unlikely, and the point is if some one is injured due to a fault on an EV charging point, who will carry the can?
I always completed a minor works or installation certificate, not for the client or boss, but to show I have take due care to ensure there was no danger. I was not as good doing method statements and risk assessments, and if I should trip on an EV chargers lead, who would be the one considered responsible.
1) Person who connected the cable for not ensuring it was not a trip hazard.
2) The owner of the charging station.
3) The installer of the charging station.
4) Some one else like the site safety officer.
If to use the EV point the user has no option, but to cause a trip hazard, one would suspect he would not be to blame. But I look at the cars, some with charge points on the side, some on the front, some on the rear, often at a hight where passers by will catch them, and often near the entrance to a facility, as installers don't want to use too much cable.
I am glad I don't need to fit one, as too easy to make what the courts see as an error.
I have tripped over loops of cable left when putting a car on charge. And talked to the owners who are often surprised to find out 22 kW charge point is only charging at 7 kW as their car can only use one phase.
I looked at the BBC news where they were saying how a new charging hub the largest in the country was opened in Rhyl which could charge 35 cars, but Rhyl is a sea side town, which has 1000's of visitors a day, a filling station with 4 pumps at 10 minutes to refuel can refuel 48 cars in 2 hours, very few take 10 minutes to refuel, so in a town with so many visitors looking at needing a 100 charging points at least with 22 kW each, if down to 7 kW then looking at 350 charging points at least, once it takes over an hour we note many leave their cars on the outlet all day, and this is causing a problem at where I work.
We have two charging points, but although at 22 kW they can recharge a car a reasonable amount in an hour, and train ride takes 2 hours, so we can expect to charge 6 cars a working day, most the cars seem to only charge at 7 kW, so after their train ride, they will have a meal or find some other activity to extend the time to let it recharge, which means the charge point is often got two cars charging and cars wanting to use the charger.
Charging at home does mean only tourist towns needs load of charging points, but the big question is how safe is charging at home?
The number of times there is a loss of PEN is low, and we can fit devices which can detect loss of PEN, and disconnect should that happen, but the question is how fast will it detect a loss of PEN, many use the voltage and if out of the range 207 - 253 it auto disconnects, but in an estate of homes with solar panels the big question is how long before it disconnects, and what are the chances of some animal be it human or other touching the vehicle before it fails safe?
The simple answer is we don't know, the same for batteries going on fire when being charged, or in an accident, with a slow take up I am sure we will work out what needs to be done, the National grid was started between the wars, and the last village to get a supply from it was within the last 20 years, so we can expect a similar time scale to upgrade it for the extra capacity required.
But as electricians what we are faced with is how to install a safe charging point. If we look at court cases, we often say "there by the grace of god go I" be it a bad EICR or a missing earth wire, in the main we get away with actions like using an electricians mate for things he was not trained to do. What I look at with EV charging points is the way the advice seems to change, and one has to produce paperwork which means even in 20 years time, people will know you fitted it.
I saw it with my parents house, guy came to fit underfloor electric heating, and offered to change whole consumer unit for one with RCD's for an extra £100 (this would be around 2006) he was working for a bathroom fitter, rather than direct for my dad, and when the bathroom fitter went under, we had nothing to tell us who the electrician was, so unable to go back to him.
However I found the house had no earth, he had tried to use the old telephone party line earth, a bare wire less than 2.5 mm² for whole house, which was broken anyway, I got DNO to give him TN-C-S and corrected the error without any real problem. This must happen 1000's of times, a fault is found and corrected and the electrician is not even told he made an error.
That is until some one is killed, then people take a lot more trouble to find out who made the error, I have wondered if over 10 years one could say it was owners fault for not getting an EICR done? But seems unlikely, and the point is if some one is injured due to a fault on an EV charging point, who will carry the can?
I always completed a minor works or installation certificate, not for the client or boss, but to show I have take due care to ensure there was no danger. I was not as good doing method statements and risk assessments, and if I should trip on an EV chargers lead, who would be the one considered responsible.
1) Person who connected the cable for not ensuring it was not a trip hazard.
2) The owner of the charging station.
3) The installer of the charging station.
4) Some one else like the site safety officer.
If to use the EV point the user has no option, but to cause a trip hazard, one would suspect he would not be to blame. But I look at the cars, some with charge points on the side, some on the front, some on the rear, often at a hight where passers by will catch them, and often near the entrance to a facility, as installers don't want to use too much cable.
I am glad I don't need to fit one, as too easy to make what the courts see as an error.
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I have an EV, just used for shopping runs and local trips max 20 to 30 miles. It costs me about 8 pence a mile, charging at home 7.5p per kWh I don't use public charge points or drape cables over the pavement because:-
I also have a diesel I use for longer trips making it the best of both worlds. The diesel costs me about 20 pence a mile.
You can ignore road tax, insurance, mot, servicing etc as you pay that regardless of the vehicle (standfast road tax).
For my situation it works, I don't care if the battery deteriorates, its probably at a rate less than my body so should see me out.
I have had V6’s, SUV’s, sports cars, TR6, TR7, Spitfire and Stag but the EV does what I ask it too, cheaply and in comfort.
I also have a diesel I use for longer trips making it the best of both worlds. The diesel costs me about 20 pence a mile.
You can ignore road tax, insurance, mot, servicing etc as you pay that regardless of the vehicle (standfast road tax).
For my situation it works, I don't care if the battery deteriorates, its probably at a rate less than my body so should see me out.
I have had V6’s, SUV’s, sports cars, TR6, TR7, Spitfire and Stag but the EV does what I ask it too, cheaply and in comfort.
Old Salt:
Certainly, EVs are presently much cheaper to run (though not to buy!), but I assure you that before long if people continue to ditch their ICE cars (and stop paying road tax and fuel duty), those payments lost by the government will suddenly be applied to EVs and electricity bills!
StephenStephen:
Quite probably. Improvements are constantly being made to many things, so why not EVs. But even so, I very much doubt that the lack of long range and charging times are unlikely to improve a great deal, especially in the winter when heaters, fans and headlights are added to the drain of power.
We shall see. Nevertheless, I shall not buy one unless they can meet my practical demands - which I doubt will happen.
Certainly, EVs are presently much cheaper to run (though not to buy!), but I assure you that before long if people continue to ditch their ICE cars (and stop paying road tax and fuel duty), those payments lost by the government will suddenly be applied to EVs and electricity bills!
StephenStephen:
Quite probably. Improvements are constantly being made to many things, so why not EVs. But even so, I very much doubt that the lack of long range and charging times are unlikely to improve a great deal, especially in the winter when heaters, fans and headlights are added to the drain of power.
We shall see. Nevertheless, I shall not buy one unless they can meet my practical demands - which I doubt will happen.
Actual costs are more like 2p per mile, even low efficiency EVs will do 3 miles/kWh, most recent electric cars can easily achieve 4+
Further to my last, the Chancellor has announced that EV owners will no longer be able to avoid Road Tax.
I imagine that there will be some rather upset EV owners!
Next step: great increases in electricity prices...
I imagine that there will be some rather upset EV owners!
Next step: great increases in electricity prices...
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