Even Keir doesn’t want 'open borders' to help the NHS.

[Notch7]

You don't have the evidence to prove that hypothesis:

1. We don't know how many make it here and disappear
2. We don't know how many who are accepted have gamed the system

doesnt that contradict your claim "most of them arent genuine"

 

[Notch7]

For example we know the criminal gangs are advising their clients to claim asylum due to being trafficked or are in debt to criminal gangs. Both likely to be as a result of coming here illegally, but will give them a strong chance of success.

prior to the rise in Albanians, the majority of the boat arrivals came from: Syria, Iraq, Iran, Afghanistan, Yemen, Eritrea, Somalia -all countries known for war, persecution and human rights abuses

Clearly there is criminal activity and some, like Albanian teenagers are being trafficked into this country and forced into crime.


Nobody on this debate seems to to want to have an honest discussion.

The reality is there are clearly non genuine people arriving, certainly those are likely to be related to crime and there are also lots of genuine asylum seekers.

The right seem to spend their whole time arguing NONE are genuine, they only want to talk about crime, Albanians, scroungers, etc etc.

 

[carmanmemoranda]

You said : They aren’t.

Which isn’t true. As 1 we rank 4th for having the most illegals living here and 2 we are the 8th most popular destination for asylum claims. Comparison per capita is just a way for pro asylum organisations to push us down the list and make out it’s not all that bad. Cyprus, malta, Luxembourg etc. hardly relevant comparisons.

I dont agree with your figures. But I understand the point of the numbers arriving by boat. Some of which are undoubtedly criminally sourced or motivated.

But the only way to sort and control (immigration will never stop) is to have an effective system working.

Who has had time in power to sort it and what have they done ? Who is to blame for the lack of control ?

 

[motorbiking]

prior to the rise in Albanians, the majority of the boat arrivals came from: Syria, Iraq, Iran, Afghanistan, Yemen, Eritrea, Somalia -all countries known for war, persecution and human rights abuses

Clearly there is criminal activity and some, like Albanian teenagers are being trafficked into this country and forced into crime.


Nobody on this debate seems to to want to have an honest discussion.

The reality is there are clearly non genuine people arriving, certainly those are likely to be related to crime and there are also lots of genuine asylum seekers.

The right seem to spend their whole time arguing NONE are genuine, they only want to talk about crime, Albanians, scroungers, etc etc.

This wasn't a thing 4 years ago.

again you are conflating illegal immigrants with asylum seekers

and you fall into the right wing narrative that there are "relatively few genuine refugees claiming asylum" despite the fact the majority of the nationalities that arrive here are from countries suffering persecution and or war.

You have taken Vinty's comment out of context, It wasnt specifically about numbers:

Vinty said: "Nothing bitter, i just wonder why, if Britain is the economic and social sithole you claim, why are so many foriegners risking their lives in small boats to access the benefits of this country."

They dont come here for benefits, thats not the reason, the vast majority of those claiming asylum want to work. They mostly come here because of the common language and connections either family or friends


illegal immigrants are mostly visa overstayers -non returning students etc.

judging by the fact the home office seems to be letting asylum seekers free to disappear, I would guess we also have a problem with non genuine asylum seekers as well

but that doesnt get away from the fact the majority of those arriving by boat (because the UK has shut off every other route) are genuine claimants.


The biggest problem is a Conservative government that is manufacturing a crisis....so it can ramp up hatred of foreigners.

Virtually everything the Conservatives have done other last 12 years has failed and the only excuse they have left is foreigners.


all the problems the UK had were supposed to have disappeared when we left the EU................

I don't think its credible to say people who are concerned with illegal immigration by small boat are adopting a right wing narrative and I don't think many believe the Tories are creating a problem to fix. They may be leveraging it to amend the Human Rights Act, but there is no way they would want this level of illegal immigration on their watch. It also has nothing to do with leaving the EU. Are you aware of how many claimants were returned under the Dublin agreements?

 

[carmanmemoranda]

This wasn't a thing 4 years ago.

What is that a graph of ? Total arrivals?

 

[motorbiking]

total people per month. but I have a more up to date chart here with boats and averages. Clearly we have a growing problem. The boats are getting bigger and there are more of them.

 

[ajohn]

We don't know how

What you really mean is you do not know

The UK offered protection, in the form of asylum, humanitarian protection, alternative forms of leave and resettlement, to 14,734 people (including dependants) in 2021. Of these:

• 81% were granted refugee status following an asylum application (‘asylum’)
• 6% were granted humanitarian protection
• 2% were granted alternative forms of leave (such as discretionary leave, UASC leave)
• 11% were granted refugee status through resettlement schemes

Additionally, 6,134 partners and children of refugees living in the UK were granted entry to the UK through family reunion visas, 28% more than the previous year.

I have already posted the Albanian acceptance rate and you haven't a clue on why they were accepted either. Now all Albanians that come here take the into crime route as it's cheaper.

The cretinous argument - economic migrants. Fact is that true asylum seekers will benefit in this respect if the settle here due to the state of countries they come from.

What did the Tory say about boat people initially. The crossing puts them in danger so must be stopped. They are illegal in terms that they didn't arrive by conventional means, Actually they have no other means. So get your favourite party to announce that the UK no longer accepts refugees as that appears to be what they want but aren't prepared to state that directly.

 

[Vinty]

Another area of concern is the Irish Republic.
The Irish government is handing out citizenship to thousands of "undocumented arrivals" a euphemism for illegal immigrant.
Once these people obtain Irish citizenship they can apply for an Irish passport which gives them entry into the UK under the CTA.
The CTA was created solely for the benefit of British and Irish citizens, if it is being abused, then the government should consider suspending it.

Irish scheme supports thousands of undocumented immigrants

More than 1,000 irregular arrivals have received work permits and are on a pathway to citizenship.

www-aljazeera-com.cdn.ampproject.org

 

[carmanmemoranda]

total people per month. but I have a more up to date chart here with boats and averages. Clearly we have a growing problem. The boats are getting bigger and there are more of them.

Total arrivals in 2019 was less than 1000. ?

you will excuse me if I don't believe your figures ?

 

[ajohn]

Another area of concern is the Irish Republic.

Bird brain what do these words mean

Regularisation of Long Term Undocumented Migrant Scheme,

I added the bold to part of it to help you,

In the past the UK has offered similar to get people documented. A lot of them were largely being used for slave labour.

The UK also managed to make a complete mess of the original boat people but the boats in that case where a lot bigger and had travelled a considerably longer distance.

 

[motorbiking]

Total arrivals in 2019 was less than 1000. ?

you will excuse me if I don't believe your figures ?

don't care if you believe them or not - they are from the gov site : https://www.gov.uk/government/statistics/irregular-migration-to-the-uk-year-ending-december-2021. the side tab shows year to date for '22

I suspect however, you have misunderstood the graph - a quick scan shows roughly 500 per month avg. for 2019.

What you really mean is you do not know

You made the argument that the acceptance rate proves otherwise, I argued you cannot prove that and you haven't. If a system is being gamed, then the outcome is people who have gamed it benefit. So I can stand by my opinion that genuine claimants arriving by small boat are relatively few.

I do appreciate that not everyone is an experienced sailor, but I think most people could figure out which of the following is the safest crossing:
A Calais to Dover - 37km of busy, tidal shipping lanes with avg sea temp around 15 degrees, after a 2000km journey to Calais.
B Dema to Kerasia (corfu) - less than 2km of warm, northern ionian sea with avg sea temp around 22 degrees and hardly much traffic at all and no tide.

Now, I'm fleeing persecution, I'm destitute with no money. I need to get to safety as quickly as possible.

I reckon I could swim B, with a couple of bin bags full of air tide around me.

 

[carmanmemoranda]

This wasn't a thing 4 years ago.

I don't think its credible to say people who are concerned with illegal immigration by small boat are adopting a right wing narrative and I don't think many believe the Tories are creating a problem to fix. They may be leveraging it to amend the Human Rights Act, but there is no way they would want this level of illegal immigration on their watch. It also has nothing to do with leaving the EU. Are you aware of how many claimants were returned under the Dublin agreements?

have another look at your graph and the figures you claim?

 

[motorbiking]

I've given you the source - why don't you read it? This graph is easier to look at:

As I said, this clearly wasn't a thing a few years ago.

 

[carmanmemoranda]

I've given you the source - why don't you read it?

I looked at your graph. It doesn't show what you claim.

Not for me to go looking. You posted it. Have you looked at it and questioned it or just accepted it ?

 

[motorbiking]

I'm claiming "this wasn't a thing a few years ago". Do you think the data is wrong? If so please feel free to share.