External render guarantee

[spc]

Good evening, This is my first post and I am in desperate need of advice.

We have just finished an external render job on an old stone cottage.. The render was carried out under good standard practice. (scratch coat with an integral waterproofer, top coat slightly weaker, straight edged, floated and sponged) Beads were stainless steel, any timber was covered with expermet etc.

The problem I have is the client refuses to pay as I have not given him a 5 year guarantee. no mention of a guarantee was discussed or agreed.

Where do I stand?

 

[1john]

I suppose that if the contract / quote didnt stipulate a guarantee, it's a bit late for him to demand one now. Out of interest, why do you think the job wont last 5 years? If you think it will then guarantee it, with the exception of anything that may go wrong that is no fault of your own, for instance, if they don't keep their guttering in good condition and it causes damage, if the building moves/subsides and causes damage, that sort of thing, do you think that is a solution?

 

[londonboy]

To be fair though if he hasnt quoted for it then he shouldnt provide that service?

 

[daneski88]

Give him the guarantee - think you may be onto a rogue customer here but I hope not. If it's not too much hassle for you and you suspect he'll get up to some funny business afterwards, once you get paid do the usual thing of stopping trading under one name and change to a new one. Thus the guarantee isn't worth the paper it's written on.

 

[seco services]

you get paid do the usual thing of stopping trading under one name and change to a new one.

shame it's not quite that easy.

 

[daneski88]

shame it's not quite that easy.

Is it not? - happened to a mate of mine who tried to follow up a company who gave him a bit of paper guaranteeing their work on wall ties.

They managed to do a whole gable wall (3 bed semi) in less than a day without having to remove the carport and without resorting to scaffolding. Funnily enough, they managed to do it without drilling any holes above shoulder height. Come to think of it, the holes they did drill were about an inch deep and had a nail shoved into it before being siliconed over again.

When a surveyor came round for a potential purchaser, although the detector picked up a signal from the metal, this was discovered to be the fraud that it was. Cost them about 1K for this "work" originally, plus the loss in value for the purpose of resale.

Needless to say, the company who did it had changed their name, and my mates found out that they did this about once a year

 

[seco services]

that proves they are out to rip people off.

i'm sure i wouldn't change my company name, phone numbers,
paperwork, advertising, van signage, trade marks, reputation the list is endless just cause one scum bag customer wants to argue my bill.
they read my terms & conditions & sign that they agree if they don't agree
go somewhere else.

 

[daneski88]

that proves they are out to rip people off.

i'm sure i wouldn't change my company name, phone numbers,
paperwork, advertising, van signage, trade marks, reputation the list is endless just cause one scum bag customer wants to argue my bill.

Fair enough, but the op may not be as established as you etc etc etc.

 

[seco services]

i agree with you.
cover your ar*e in this game im afraid.

 

[Johnmelad502]

Just give him a guarantee, that way when you end up in court (cos he still won't pay you) at least the courts will see that you have done gone out of your way to accommodate this cowboy customer.

 

[spc]

Thank you for your input, Although as much advice as possible is appreciated.

Although I am sure that the render will do its job longer than the guarantee is asking for, the fact is no mention of it was descussed of asked for in any corespondance.

I have now been sent an email outlining what the guarantee should look like.

Hi, a quick point of reference regarding this matters, everyone whom looked
at the job was told including yourself that I will require at least a five 5
year guarantee , 12 months is not standard for render or much else in the
construction industry, 10 years is the contractual standard so to be
reasonable I have reduced it to 5yrs.

you would under any claim should it arise be the supplier of the replacement
materials and their cost regardless of whom supplied the original materials
in the first place

with regard to your description of failure in the form of "mechanical
separation" this needs to be broadened for your benefit and mine that it
reads something like;

I, ********* owner of SPC, Guarantee the
application of external render free from
mechanical separation, weather permeation such as water and frost erosion,
detachment of materials (excluding direct structural movement such as cracks
beyond your control) and the general application of the finish to the said
walls with regards to the application being in accordance with standard
rendering applications to both blockwork and old stonework as rendered. All
claims subject to an agreed independent structural survey for the standard
period of 5 years after completion, as such hereby recorded on the 18th day
of July 2010 .

this is a small but important thing to agree on, I hope you find that it
covers both of us more clearly, you should however ask your solicitor for
advise if you think this incorrect.


regards

**************

 

[CortinaV8]

I can see how having a guarentee would be desirable as a customer, but the terms seem to be more favourable to himself.

I guess from his email he supplied all materials, if it was my job and I was not desperate for the money I have in the past told people like this to go f*ck themselves.

 

[1john]

Just honour it, it's only one job, if you keep this guy happy he way tell someone of your work or he may tell no one, on the other hand if you dont keep him happy he may well tell everyone about you, and his story isn't gonna reflect well on yourself, no matter what the truth may be Sadly on this case you are going to have to suck it up. I am hoping that the remder that was there was fairly old and not deverely cracked, if you have a good strong bond with no hollow sounding areas then you should have little to worry about, five years isnt long and i have had bird sh!t stuck to my van for longer . I would draw up a guarantee that covers you well, after all you did not beild the substrate or provide the materials, you simply mixed and applied them, so unless you have done a bad job then there isnt alot to worry about.

 

[daneski88]

The only thing I would suggest you add to the gurantee that you've drafted out is that it will become void should the customer not keep the guttering etc in order ( to prevent unreasonable and excessive weathering) and also the event of any modifications (don't mention the fact that this includes painting ) or mechanical devices applied to it (so if he screws or nails anything, then the guarantee is void).

If he wants to be a tw@t, it's only right that you give yourself a load of ambiguous escape clauses

 

[1john]

daneski, i think your points are reasonable, It may be worth the OP asking on the plastering forum if anyone is willing to share their guarantee statement with you