Rendering quote

[1john]

shouldnt there be building paper over the battens before the mesh to stop you breaching the cavity otherwise snots are going to fall and eventually breach across??

 

[PikeyDIY]

It's an option, we could put Tyvek on the mesh and then put another layer of mesh on, effectively making the first layer of mesh redundant but that doesnt matter if thats what it takes to get it right.

Id be tempted to say just the double sheet of mesh would do it, personally?

 

[1john]

I would be concerned about breaching the void and possibly causing rot somewhere, that was my only thinking.

 

[stevethespreader]

hi ***** you keep on about saving money how much is your house worth? its going to be worth a hell of a lot more if the jobs done properly, whats happening here is to save a few bob your going to devalue your house with a botch job and that will if it ever needs to be put right its going to put an even bigger dent in your wallet, as soon as he said hes never done this kind of work before you should have shown him the door, also a pricking up coat is the base coat for the scratch coat to stick too making it 3 coat work, i suggest you listen to the advice of rough caster, michilin
and the others who are giving you sound advice, i dont think you are listening to the advice given or dont want to listen also you must be surly taking those damaged beads off? or are you going to leave them on to save another fiver? and i can see that if another layer of render is going on then the render thats on there already should have been scratched for a key, all this for the sake of trying to save a few bob remember cheapest isn't always best

 

[PikeyDIY]

I 'keep on about saving money'?? I have never mentioned saving money in the context of cutting corners or doing a bodged job - however I do object to spending over £1200 on unnecessarily specifying stainless steel mesh where it is NOT REQUIRED

ONE part of ONE corner bead has been SLIGHTLY bent in the process of hacking off the render, which I will replace if its beyond use.

I am not doing anything to 'save a few bob', and I take offence that that's what you think Im doing, or have done at any stage! In fact none of what you say is helpful, and the tone in which you say it is unhelpful aswell, so save your time and dont bother offering any more 'advice' thanks

 

[stevethespreader]

It would cost more in terms of me taking time off work than it would save us on the cost of his labourer (£40/day), so that's not really an option. But good idea anyway, thats what I'm doing with our electrician (but he works saturdays )

this post cofirms what i said about saving

 

[stevethespreader]

Stainless mesh is out of the question - its 5 times the price, so instead of £300 it's £1500.

NHBC do say to put a strip of dpc between each batten and the mesh, to protect from the swelling mentioned by rouchcaster, but I forgot to do it

Not entirely sure how I'd go about taking it off without ruining it tbh, so from that point of view attaching another layer of mesh seems the most obvious thing to do - and an extra £1000 for this guy's labour is STILL cheaper than buying stainless mesh!

I cant upload photos tonight on this little computer, will do tomorrow morning

so does this

 

[stevethespreader]

Here's a few photos:

Wall construction - there is a 50mm cavity between the face of the Tyvek and the mesh, formed by horizontal battens at 600mm centres (which are screwed to the main studs) and vertical battens at ~300mm centres which are screwed to the horizontal battens. The mesh is stapled to the battens at about 5" or 6" centres:

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• PikeyDIY
• 18 May 2010
• 1

To counter the fact that a) you all seem to be saying we havent overlapped the mesh enough and b) we forgot the dpm strips to isolate the battens, and some of you think we should have used stainless mesh, I think putting on a second layer of mesh is probably advisable anyway. It's only going to cost another £300 and wont take all that long for me and my girlfriend to put up.

This is the bit he managed to do, filled all the way back to the Tyvek with render:

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• PikeyDIY
• 18 May 2010
• 1

So we broke all that out before it set:

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• PikeyDIY
• 18 May 2010
• 1

And this is the bit he did on a double layer of mesh, which seemed to work far more effectively. You cant see it in this picture obviously, but there is a clear cavity maintained behind the battens, which is what we need for the house to work properly:

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• PikeyDIY
• 18 May 2010
• 1

I didnt realise that his original quote for a scratch coat and a top coat was not valid for this form of construction, had I known that maybe this wouldnt have happened, but a quote of £3850 instead of £2850 is still cheaper than the one we had for a polymer throughcoloured render (£4500), and is still ok in terms of price per square metre really.

He gave me a rough estimate of 2 people + a labourer for three days of £800, plus materials about £200 = £1000 to do the base coat on a double layer of mesh, then he would proceed with the quote as before, ie two further coats on top of the base coat.

and so is this one m8 im just saying how i see it ilmao

 

[jrplastering]

i dnt think offence was ment at all i think if anything frustration has preveiled and i can understand.
at the end of the day you asked for our professional advice and we gave it, you have however decided to stick with what you was doin in the first place.
yes you are correct in it will be cheaper to carry one with a second layer and just coat it up but ....... the battens will swell and shrink you could intrude on the void with rener falling through, the eml could corrode (you mite be lucky and it might not), the plasterer you are useing clearly knows nothing about what he is doin and his second scratch on that exsisting "smooth" scratch is more than likley goin to come away as it has nouthing to key into,
these are all signs that its goin to end badly for you in the long run this is what we are trying to show you, there are many reasons as to why you should stop before you get to far into it, if we was giveing you just one reason then mabey disagreeeing with us would be understandable but we are giveing you many FREE PROFESSIONAL TIPS and advice to assure you get the best quality job that anyone deserves.
i do not want to offend you at all but it seems a bit of a pointless thread for us to put in the effort for you to decide to stay as you was despite the book of reasons we have given you not to, im sorry you feel insulted but come on youve bin given alot to tips as to how to do the job properly and we can only hope you decide to use them next timeyou have to do this and trust me you will.

 

[stevethespreader]

i dnt think offence was ment at all i think if anything frustration has preveiled and i can understand.
at the end of the day you asked for our professional advice and we gave it, you have however decided to stick with what you was doin in the first place.
yes you are correct in it will be cheaper to carry one with a second layer and just coat it up but ....... the battens will swell and shrink you could intrude on the void with rener falling through, the eml could corrode (you mite be lucky and it might not), the plasterer you are useing clearly knows nothing about what he is doin and his second scratch on that exsisting "smooth" scratch is more than likley goin to come away as it has nouthing to key into,
these are all signs that its goin to end badly for you in the long run this is what we are trying to show you, there are many reasons as to why you should stop before you get to far into it, if we was giveing you just one reason then mabey disagreeeing with us would be understandable but we are giveing you many FREE PROFESSIONAL TIPS and advice to assure you get the best quality job that anyone deserves.
i do not want to offend you at all but it seems a bit of a pointless thread for us to put in the effort for you to decide to stay as you was despite the book of reasons we have given you not to, im sorry you feel insulted but come on youve bin given alot to tips as to how to do the job properly and we can only hope you decide to use them next timeyou have to do this and trust me you will.

well said jr there was no offence meant i just say things as i see them

 

[joe-90]

I think the OP is probably stressed out about it all.

As someone mentioned there is a massive weight building up with all that render what's holding it all up?

Don't they usually spray some kind of polymer modified render on that stuff?

It is light and durable.

 

[Micilin]

That was his justification for needing three coats rather than two. He said to me "look theres no way I can scratch that, so I'll have to do three coats"

So what you're saying is that his first coat should stick out more and then be scratched? What is a 'pr1ck' coat then? Im confused

First coat is to firm up the mesh (pr1ck it up) and allow second coat to go on. It doe not need to cover the whole surface- if it does you need to scratch it - you don't want to push it all through , it is not meant to straighten the wall . The back of the coat (if you could see it) would look a bit like a swallow's nest (if youhave seen one!) Layer of building paper, polythene etc would allow you to put better first coat and scratch it properly when it picked up a bit.

Second coat straightens the wall out. On mesh I usually bead with this scratch coat, as you don't know where they go until you see how the wall is shaping up for line/plumb etc . If there are bumps in the wall, maybe you need to give it another coat here and there. Check all beads, check you have allowed for a nice float coat.

When floating, you can get different suctions- sometimes on mesh , you get 'green' suction when the scratch coat is not gone off. Sometimes you get little suction if it is a tight coat onto waterproofer/ or waterproof membrane backing. If your cavity is partly filled, you will get different suction there. You will need to give it a light sprinkle, or hose it a few times depending . This can't really be explained so well here, the guy doing the job needs to assess this - but this will be vital to your finish.

Then you have the float coat.

You won't be able to patch this, whatever way it is finished- that's it.

I hope you get on well with it . I would have explained everything to my client first- but as an analogy, if my mechanic did not know what an alternator was, I would not be letting him service my car.

 

[PikeyDIY]

It would cost more in terms of me taking time off work than it would save us on the cost of his labourer (£40/day), so that's not really an option. But good idea anyway, thats what I'm doing with our electrician (but he works saturdays )

this post cofirms what i said about saving

No it doesnt - why would I take a day off work to spend it shovelling sand and cement into a mixer all day, busting my gut - when instead I could be sat in my office earning MORE money than I'd be paid for being a labourer for a day??????? THINK about it

That second quote is nothing to do with cutting costs - STAINLESS MESH IS NOT REQUIRED. Why on gods green earth would I spend over a thousand pounds for something that I JUST DONT NEED??????

 

[PikeyDIY]

Everybody else has been quite helpful, so thank you for that

I havent made any decisions about what we're going to do yet. We are looking at alternative quotes, the previous guy has left site but all his stuff is still here - including 2T of sand. I have said I'll ring him next Tuesday and let him know where we are. I will also speak to the NHBC Building Inspector.

I will see tonight if its possible to pull out the staples we used to attach the mesh, allowing us to re-use the existing mesh. If not, we might as well just leave it on there and cover it with building paper before attaching another layer of mesh, to save us the work of taking it all down.

 

[stevethespreader]

It would cost more in terms of me taking time off work than it would save us on the cost of his labourer (£40/day), so that's not really an option. But good idea anyway, thats what I'm doing with our electrician (but he works saturdays )

this post cofirms what i said about saving

No it doesnt - why would I take a day off work to spend it shovelling sand and cement into a mixer all day, busting my gut - when instead I could be sat in my office earning MORE money than I'd be paid for being a labourer for a day??????? THINK about it

That second quote is nothing to do with cutting costs - STAINLESS MESH IS NOT REQUIRED. Why on gods green earth would I spend over a thousand pounds for something that I JUST DONT NEED??????

i see you dindent mention the 3rd quote so ill do it for you "a quote of £3850 instead of £2850 is still cheaper than the one we had for a polymer throughcoloured render (£4500), and is still ok in terms of price per square metre really." if you had took that option it probably would have been done in 2-3 days and it would have been done right ,ive had a go at that and we managed to scratch coat a whole 2 story new build cottage in one day, and about me not being helpfull well the advice i gave you was to take the lads advice and you havent done that you even had to counter your reasons against what some of them have said ive had it with your post now there must be over a 100 years worth of experience on this one( collectivley) giving advice and i see it has fallen on deaf ears im taking your post out of my watching list