Rendering quote

[Micilin]

That second quote is nothing to do with cutting costs - STAINLESS MESH IS NOT REQUIRED. Why on gods green earth would I spend over a thousand pounds for something that I JUST DONT NEED??????

I wouldn't go as far as saying that! Stainless steel is required if you want to be sure it will never rust, but on your job you are making a cost/benefit analysis. We all do it, or should do it.

You decided that the risk of your galvanised eml rusting or reacting is outweighed by the cost saving. ie cost of s/s vs benefit of not rusting has made you decide to go for galvanised.

Hopefully the NHBC person will put your mind at rest over what to do.

Going by the book, they will say s/s but it's not their wallet.

Don't get too annoyed at people who get a liitle frustrated here - it would be worse if they didn't give a t0ss. They do things the right way themselves and expect others to be the same.

Some of us have learned from making mistakes, and want to stop others making the same ones - that is how a trade is built up over generations and the lack of which means it is being destroyed now.

As a general comment, it's also frustrating to see people charging punters for work when they don't know what to do, and this is very irksome for people who do it for a living, as they are ruining the trade, and cutting prices without giving value for money.

 

[PikeyDIY]

@stevethe spreader: £4500 was a rough quote, without even having seen the property, there's no guarantee that paying £4500 would have resulted in a better job anyway - or even that it would have been possible AT ALL with the mesh the way it is now!!! You're making enormous assumptions about me and my situation, you're clearly an idiot, and I have no further interest in hearing anything you have to say

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We have polythene left over from sheeting the roof which we could use to back the mesh. Are you sure one layer of mesh would be ok with a backing such as this? Our guy says this would be no good for him.

Please understand, I have no idea whether to trust him or any of you. I'd sound a bit silly if I said to him "some guys on the internet think you dont know what you're doing"

I have already consulted NHBC regarding the mesh. I am a structural engineer and I have designed this building myself. It's in a sheltered, inland location, with one wall that faces southwest. Had I not designed a cantilevered roof to protect most of this elevation, I would consider using SS mesh on this one elevation only, but since I've taken that into account I see no need (and neither do the people qualified to check what I'm doing) to specify SS mesh. As far as I'm concerned thats the end of the galv/stainless debate - Ok?

 

[PikeyDIY]

I passed on your concern that the 2nd coat wouldnt key to the 1st coat. He said he would use pva unibond on the base coat to bond 2nd layer in, plus a few scratches here and there.

Is this a viable solution? Or is he still covering for not being able to do the 1st coat properly??

 

[Micilin]

I passed on your concern that the 2nd coat wouldnt key to the 1st coat. He said he would use pva unibond on the base coat to bond 2nd layer in, plus a few scratches here and there.

Is this a viable solution? Or is he still covering for not being able to do the 1st coat properly??

*****-

You must not use PVA outside - it is not the stuff to use rendering. This guy uses it inside, does not know outside work. He should not have left his first coat like that, probably would have gone straight over it if you had not mentioned it. (Anyway iF it is the solution , why use a few scratches here and there?)

Without going over old ground too much, that guy does not know what he is doing . What has he done right so far??

He didn't quote right, did not know how to deal with eml, did not apply render right, filled cavity, CAN'T apply it right, did not allow a key for the next coat, suggests a solution (which is only needed because of his inability to do it right first time) that is wrong, wants two layers eml etc.

You said above you can't keep going back to him with internet advice - likewise if you decide on using him, then let him do it, but don't keep expecting to go step by step thru what he does.

Straight talking - We are back to cost /benefit - get someone who has done it before, ask to see the work and talk to clients . Don't pay this guy a penny - he cannot fulfil his contract.

Otherwise let him do it and carry on . Your house, your money, your decision.

I know what mine would be.

 

[Micilin]

@stevethe spreader: £you're clearly an idiot, and I have no further interest in hearing anything you have to say

I'd disagree with you here, but this is only the internet and you're both big boys


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We have polythene left over from sheeting the roof which we could use to back the mesh. Are you sure one layer of mesh would be ok with a backing such as this? Our guy says this would be no good for him.

For me, yes. I can't second guess what is good for him - afraid I have already made up my mind that I would not let him near my house to deliver a pizza, never mind render it.



Please understand, I have no idea whether to trust him or any of you. I'd sound a bit silly if I said to him "some guys on the internet think you dont know what you're doing"

Yes, healthy scepticism vital. Weigh it all up. The worry is that you can't trust him -he will have major impact on your house, wallet and mental health!



I have already consulted NHBC regarding the mesh. I am a structural engineer and I have designed this building myself. It's in a sheltered, inland location, with one wall that faces southwest. Had I not designed a cantilevered roof to protect most of this elevation, I would consider using SS mesh on this one elevation only, but since I've taken that into account I see no need (and neither do the people qualified to check what I'm doing) to specify SS mesh. As far as I'm concerned thats the end of the galv/stainless debate - Ok?


Yes - you have reduced the risk of it rusting Your cost /benefit parameters are up to you. Have you spoken to expamet (or manufacturer) about applications/ mixing s/s beads with galv?

It's your choice, but s/s a very sensible suggestion and one that was made with a background of technical knowledge as well as practical experience.

Your the only one involved in the whole thing that has to live with the result!!!

Edit - Previous question on plinth was the bonding of the bricks in photo

 

[joe-90]

It beats me how a structural engineer knows so little about structures that he has to come onto an internet forum and ask.

 

[PikeyDIY]

Well, a quick internet search reveals a BBA certificate for Unibond PVA adhesive for use in external conditions: http://www.bbacerts.co.uk/PDF/2695i3_web.pdf

Bricks are laid stack bond, with BRC reinforcement tracks in each mortar bed. Perfectly ok

 

[Micilin]

Well, a quick internet search reveals a BBA certificate for Unibond PVA adhesive for use in external conditions: http://www.bbacerts.co.uk/PDF/2695i3_web.pdf

Bricks are laid stack bond, with BRC reinforcement tracks in each mortar bed. Perfectly ok

Just curious on the bricks, does that bond tie in with another feature (tiles , cladding) elsewhere - make sure they are washed off while render is fresh.

Instead of PVA, use SBR mixed in with OPC:sand (1:1:1) for slurry, it is waterproof, will flex better and is designed for use with cement. You don't want to be just painting with PVA or SBR and then slapping a coat on render on.

The PVA you linked is 'Waterproof PVA,' as opposed to ' PVA ' that your man mentioned . Note it says in the spec for " intermittently wet internal and external service conditions" would a week of rain be classed as 'intemittent' , never mind what we had over the past year!!!?

It "should not be used in permanently wet conditions" - again, whether this is something you'd want on an outside wall during our winters (or summers ) is up to you. I'd go with SBR.

SBR can be used in tanking situations ( btw used in Home OFfice Spec for high security cells ) so that is the stuff for outside.

Remember , we would not be having this discussion if your man keyed his render properly! The fact that he mentioned PVA and not SBR is a signal to me.

Again, might sound harsh - but at least you are getting something to go on !!!!

 

[stevethespreader]

[quote="PikeyDIY";p="1618699clearly an idiot, :


quote] ilmao so much on that remark honestly i cant stop laughing take a look at the mess your in whos the idiot ? whos the idiot with a couple of tonnes of sand outside his house with no one that knows how to use it? whos the idiot thats saying he cant trust the plasterer hes employed or the plasterers in cyberspace? and i tell you what at least that so called plasterer was honest at least he told you hes never done any work like that b4 and yet you still allowed him to turn up with his sand please please i could go on for ages about whos the idiot here

 

[roy c]

I think this post is going nowhere and ***** is not listening so I for one will not be making any more suggestions.....

 

[roughcaster]

Untitled

• PikeyDIY
• 18 May 2010
• 1

Nobody likes to criticise other peoples work,, but i refer back to what Micilin said about "the man not knowing what he's doing."

In this one photo,, "little things" give the game away:
In this case: 4 examples,,,,
1) The bellcast beading: most plasterers would mitre that 90% corner.
2) The drain as Mic said, left uncovered.
3) The amount he's dropped on the ground for the small area covered is ridiculous. Always hold the hawk underneath as you coat, and don't leave it "too long" before scratching,,,, and on mesh,,, scratch "very carefuly".

But for me,, this is the main one,

4) I was alway taught to start coating at the top of the wall, and work down the wall,,, whether onto brick/block or mesh. That way you are working/coating "up and into" what you are putting on. It's far easier doing it that way too, because you are working away from what you have put on. Starting at the bottom and working up the way, could cause the coat to become heavy and slump, because of the downward weight of the render.

 

[jrplastering]

good idea RC i diddnt even think about doing something like picking problems in one pic to show how wrong the current plasterer is, and ***** please please please listen to the advice you have bin given yes you are a structual engineer but have you never herd the saying jack of all master of none, i know plenty of structual engineers but they always rely on the skill and knowledge of thier tradesmen to assuere thier names are tied to a top quality job.
all the advice you have bin given is quality advice and i for one think you should seriously considder the long term ramafications of everything that has bin done so far and (not haveing a pop) but i personaly if it was my own place would use ss mesh just to be safe and to sleep easy at night knowing my walls are mot rusting but thats up to you your house your bank account your decision
JRP

 

[PikeyDIY]

Permanently wet is underwater, as in a swimming pool. Intermittently wet is correct for an external wall. I'll make sure its the correct stuff he uses, if we continue to use him.

Im pretty sure he only started at the bottom because he wasnt sure he could continue, so it would be easier to dismantle it if it was at ground level. Then again I could be giving him the benefit of the doubt that he doesnt deserve here

 

[Micilin]

Permanently wet is underwater, as in a swimming pool. Intermittently wet is correct for an external wall. I'll make sure its the correct stuff he uses, if we continue to use him.

Yeah, but if you have the choice, go for the stuff that will handle permanent. When will the 'intermittent' fail, after being wet for 2 weeks ,2 months, three?

Ask him , without leading him on, what kind of PVA he was going to use and how he was going to apply it. If he was just going to brush it on, an then render, and/or use ordinary PVA - , you don't need to come back here and tell us , just do yourself a favour.


Im pretty sure he only started at the bottom because he wasnt sure he could continue, so it would be easier to dismantle it if it was at ground level. No further questions, your honour

I'm resting my case now .

Good luck with the job.
[/b]

 

[1john]

I dont want to get into an argument here with anyone but as for the galv vs SS mesh I will say this... The galv coating in the EML is very thin, and imo would become quite compromised with an abrasive substance such as render being rubbed against it, I would like to suggest to you that you at least use SS corner beads and bellcasts (if you havent already) and not re-use any of the EML that has been rendered on if you plan on removing it and re-using it. I have seen loads and loads of rusting bellcasts and corner beads, I cannot comment on EML clad walls like yours as there are not very common place although I do like the idea, although if it were my house built with that construction I would have speced a cement board over the battons with EML over top for additional impact resistance.

I hope this has helped you or at least given you some food for thaught, after all, is it better to spend some extra now, or do the job twice when the first job fails prematurly?

Good luck with the project and I for one am interested to see how it progresses, after all I do beleive we all have your best interests at heart when commenting, although some people have gotten frustrated, and after all we are only human.