Externally located electric meters

I'm not sure how the assumption arose that we need to fill our EVs in the same place and manner as oil powered cars.
I can only speak for myself, but I've made no assumptions as to where it would happen. Indeed, given that it's going to take an awful lot longer to charge a car than to fill it with petrol, any places for mass charging would have to be able to accommodate far more vehicles at the same time than do petrol filling stations - which, in itself, makes that approach very questionable.
Change to a situation where you can stop anywhere convenient (put them all the way along roads connected at any point) and charge without having to stand there at the same time, it doesn't seem so ridiculous to spend a little longer charging.
I'm not sure I really understand that but, in any event, it would still represent a major 'infrastructure challenge' - but where would these people 'stand' (or sit) during the charging if not in proximity to your roadside charging points?

Kind Regards, John
 
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but where would these people 'stand' (or sit) during the charging if not in proximity to your roadside charging points?
I don't know, but the current status quo is people holding a pump handle where they aren't allowed to do much except stand in the wind on a sterile concrete surface and wait, I could imagine if that restriction was remove there could be all sorts of opportunities. I could easily imagine a nice picnic bench, a coffee shop, maybe business people would have some nice ideas. Maybe you would have other business anyway in the area you stopped.
Also regarding the infrastructure, at the moment everyone has to use petrol stations the same, regardless of their journey patterns. In the new world all the local commuters would only need to charge at home and work anyway. So it would only be long distance travellers forced to have these artificial breaks, so the charging stations probably wouldn't have to accommodate many more cars, as those cars would be charged in the places they are already accommodated.
 
Indeed, and I presume that's what BAS was referring to when he wrote "... It's #2 that's the real killer."
Yup.

And it's not just the fact that petrol/diseasel pumps are ubiquitously available*, and rapidly supplied, there's also the laws-of-physics stuff which mean that a single normal-vehicle fuel dispenser (I say that because AFAIK ones designed for HGVs dispense diseasel at much higher rates) is about a 35MW equivalent appliance.


*although has anybody noticed that when you start to be conscious of needing to fill up outside urban areas you realise how few and far between petrol stations are these days?


I suppose that a corresponding (albeit totally different) problem would arise if petrol-engined vehicles had only recently appeared in quantity, and owners/drivers were wondering how on earth they would get fuel to undertake long journeys (and how much it would cost to create the necessary supply infrastructure).
As you said, chemists and cans of motor spirit.


As I think you are implying, I'm far from convinced that anyone (including government) who is advocating widespread change to EVs has actually done, or looked at very carefully, the maths of the 'fuel supply' issue!
Surely you aren't suggesting that politicians promise jam tomorrow in the knowledge that by the time tomorrow comes and there's no fruit or sugar, let alone jam, they'll be long retired on the last remaining gold-plated final salary pension scheme?


Although, as I recognised recently, EV charging regimes don't have to replicate IC fuelling ones, fortunately. If you had a tap at home which delivered fuel for your vehicle(s) overnight, how often would you need to visit a filling station? I've got an 80l tank in my car, and if I'd gone for the "sensible" diseasel engine I'd probably be filling up every 800 - 1,000 miles. And holidays apart, if I could top up at home I would never need to visit one.

Few people private motorists drive more than 2-300 miles per day, so few will need some fast way to charge their vehicle en route, but we all sometimes do it, and then the logistical constraints will become unavoidable behaviour modifiers. But that's not to downplay the fact that there remains a huge infrastructure deficit if we want to swap all private IC vehicles for EV ones charging up at home overnight.
 
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If you had a tap at home which delivered fuel for your vehicle(s) overnight, how often would you need to visit a filling station?
Been there (not the overnight bit, but fuelling at home). For quite some time I was fuelling my thirsty V8 Land Rovers from red propane cylinders and a pump (I have both an electric and a hand pump) - legally paying the fuel duty on it before anyone comments on that.
As you point out, you can do a fair range without having to use a public filling station - and for a lot of use the same would be true of EVs, except for the substantially reduced range.
But I do think that the "forced take a break" scenario is never going to be popular with the majority of people who do have to use public filling stations. I see several different groups using them :
Those that cannot fill up at home because they only have on street parking, and cannot fill up at work because employers aren't going to invest in putting (possibly dozens, hundreds, or thousands :eek:) of sockets all over the car park*. They will have to go to a charging station and it won't really be a needed break in what would otherwise be a short journey. Converting every lamp post would only make a small difference to this given the wide spacing of them along the streets. I'm now back in the "have the luxury of my own off-street parking" brigade again :)
Those that travel a lot - think salesmen, service technicians, etc. It's going to be hit and miss whether they can plug in at any destination and any enforced break is likely to be unwelcome.
People not in the above but taking longer trips. I can see there being a case for parking up and taking a break - but that only works now because there's so few EVs that the charger is probably available. Given the push for faster charging, that means some very large loads to cater for the "splash and dash" group - but unless everyone is very co-operative (ha :rolleyes:) then those staying for (say) an hour or more will end up pulling a large load and then tying up the charger for some time. I suppose there is scope for putting in a larger number of slower chargers in some places.

But none of that gets round the fundamental issue that regardless of how you redistribute the "fuelling" - we don't have (and don't have any prospect in the foreseeable future of having) a surplus of zero/low carbon lecky and EVs simply move the carbon burning from a portable engine to a centralised gas or coal burning power station.

* Where I used to work, there were probably several hundred parking spaces altogether and sometimes there were none at all left (leading to some "creative" parking at times). The landlord would not even spend the money needed to put magnetic holdbacks on the fire doors on our floor (the system interface was already in place for it as there were some downstairs) leading to a routine process fo removing all the wedges each time there was a fire safety inspection and the propped open doors were flagged up, and new wedges appearing within the next week or two to make the place habitable (only way to may the place tolerable in hot weather is to get through draft needing the fire doors open).
Chances of them shelling out for even a single charging place, on the low side of nil unless someone else paid for it. I can't see the government funding any meaningful widespread installations - and by meaningful I mean more than a token one or two dedicated spaces.
And if you installed (say) an 16A blue socket in front of every parking bay - what diversity factor would you apply to the wiring and protection ? How far ahead would you try and plan ? How would you deal with "theft" of lecky ? How would you charge people for using them ?
I guess that "eventually" someone will come up with a scheme for interconnected slow chargers that will co-operate amongst themselves to control total power draw, and have some way of the user "logging in" so they can be charged for the power. That would ease the diversity calculation since you'd just rely on a group of (say) 20 chargers restricting their total draw to (say) 60A - running off a 63A single phase supply. The problem then is that the users won't know if they'll get 3A (750W) because all the bays are in use, or 20A (5kW) because most of the bays aren't charging. But looking at the building where I used to work - the main fuses for the supplies were only 300A/phase (there were two such supplies). Allow 60A/20 parking spaces and that's 1/3 of the supply capacity taken for 200 parking spaces with potentially only a very slow trickle charge. Allow sensible charging rates for everyone and you quickly get to a situation where there's no supply capacity left for the building itself. I could seriously see mass charging being restricted to as little as (say) 1/2kW or less if there were truly mass adoption of EVs.
I know that most of my colleagues (and myself for a while) did not have off-street parking, many being on streets where it was good luck if you got to park vaguely near your own house. So charging at work would become the norm for them - so it's not good enough to be able to get enough to "just" cover your trip from home to work.
 
I've observed before that mass adoption of EVs will inevitably also mean a complete change in our current pattern of ownership and use. It has to.
 
Which in itself is an impediment to their mass adoption. For I fear, "complete change in ..." really means "accepting massive restrictions" on what people have become used to.
 
Yup.

But we are being softened up for it - housing developments where no parking spaces are provided, Uber and uber-like sharing/hiring schemes, "boris bikes" et al to get us used to on-demand provisioning....
 

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