Extractor fan isolation query

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Hi guys, i just want to get a general consensus on where everyone stands on fan isolation. Obviously when installing a new fan or replacing a fan then an isolator is a must. However, i have just done a PIR and picked up the fact that none of the bathrooms have fan isolators.
What would you put down on the observations page? That they dont comply as current regulations but pass or to recommend an isolator to be fitted and therefore a fail?

Many thanks in advance, Dave
 
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I would personally recommend it as an improvement. However i am wondering if it is a new regulation or not as i am qualified to the 17th edition and dont know whether when it was installed it complied with the regs at the time. I couldnt possibly fail it if that was the case.
I appreciate the input.
 
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Well we can certainly improve on the installation, I would not fail it.
I would be interested what the MIs for the fans stated?
Have you assessed when the fans were installed?
 
No i havent checked the internals of the fans yet. And as for manufacturers instructions.....i reckon there is 2 kind of hopes. Bob Hope and No Hope!
 
Which regulation(s) does the omission of a fan isolator contravene?
 
Generally on a domestic installation your covered with this by the main switch for the installation.

Obviously many manufacturers will recommend an isolator is fitted.

I would not even give this a mention on an EICR.
 
.... Obviously when installing a new fan or replacing a fan then an isolator is a must.
Obviously? What reg says that? IMO, the main reason for having an isolator near to a fan is to prevent an electrician having to work on it in the dark - but the regs don't have that one :)

Kind Regards, John.
 
.... Obviously when installing a new fan or replacing a fan then an isolator is a must.
Obviously? What reg says that?
I'm afraid it's 134.1.1.
As you may have noticed, this is one of my pet hates as it is totally unnecessary and the equivalent of the manufacturers stating that we must install their fans using only 2.5mm² T+E.
IMO, the main reason for having an isolator near to a fan is to prevent an electrician having to work on it in the dark - but the regs don't have that one.
Is anyone sure that this is not just an urban myth?

A more plausible reason would be because their fans are rubbish and prone to sticking and causing an electrical/thermal problem which an isolation switch would negate so that the lights can be used until the fan is replaced.

After all why is it not required that all rooms without windows be supplied with two lights on separate circuits so that we don't have to work on them in the dark?
 
What reg says that?
I'm afraid it's 134.1.1. As you may have noticed, this is one of my pet hates as it is totally unnecessary and the equivalent of the manufacturers stating that we must install their fans using only 2.5mm² T+E.
Hmmm. Although I have to agree that the words are clear enough, I often wonder if 134.1.1 doesn't perhaps get taken too literally. There are clearly some situations in which the MIs could be important, but I doubt that those who wrote 134.1.1 were really thinking about 'silly' requirements of MIs, relating to things which would not be required in the absence of the MIs. I think that definitely applies in the case of fan isolation. The manufacturer is not going to know any more than the IET do about the need for an isolator - so why should they be able to impose a requirement for something that the regs would not otherwise require? Having said that, I suppose that an electrician probably has little choice but to obey MIs (hence 134.1.1), even when silly.

Maybe electricians should act collectively in an attempt to apply 'market forces'. If it were to be made known that electricians were going to, wherever they could, cease buying and fitting things which had 'silly' requirements in their MIs, then maybe at least some manufacturers would edit their MIs :)

the main reason for having an isolator near to a fan is to prevent an electrician having to work on it in the dark - but the regs don't have that one.
Is anyone sure that this is not just an urban myth?
Who knows - I'm merely repeating (thereby maybe perpetuating a myth) what several others have said to me - here and elsewhere.

A more plausible reason would be because their fans are rubbish and prone to sticking and causing an electrical/thermal problem which an isolation switch would negate so that the lights can be used until the fan is replaced.
That's another possibility, although even bad fans usually last a year or three. In any event, I suppose you would merely have to substitue 'householder' for 'electrician' in the 'myth' (for the person being inconvenienced) - since the other option is to switch off the entire circuit until repaired.

After all why is it not required that all rooms without windows be supplied with two lights on separate circuits so that we don't have to work on them in the dark?
:) However, as I think we are agreed, even with fans, except for the MI, there's no requirement in the regs for any 'electrician convenience' measure!

Kind Regards, John.
 
However i am wondering if it is a new regulation or not as i am qualified to the 17th edition and dont know whether when it was installed it complied with the regs at the time.
Completely irrelevant - what the regulations said at some point in the past no longer matters. Things either comply with the current version or they do not.
 
I would personally recommend it as an improvement. However i am wondering if it is a new regulation or not as i am qualified to the 17th edition ....
Since you are qualified to the 17th edition you will understand that there is no current regulation which explictly requires fan isolators. As has been discussed here, the only situation in which the regulations would require an isolator is if the Manufacturer's Instructions for the fan said that one must (not just 'may') install an isolator - since compliance with such instructions is required by 134.1.1. If the MIs don't contain such a requirement then, unless there are exceptional circumstances, I would have said the situation is compliant with current regs, and therefore that to 'recommend improvement' would be a little odd.

Kind Regards, John.
 
.... Obviously when installing a new fan or replacing a fan then an isolator is a must.
Obviously? What reg says that?

A more plausible reason would be because their fans are rubbish and prone to sticking and causing an electrical/thermal problem which an isolation switch would negate so that the lights can be used until the fan is replaced.

Yep, had exactly this scenario yesterday morning, all the lights in the house on one circuit, no time to replace fan so in this instance, thank heavens for the fan isolator!
 

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