Extractor fan venting into loft

[fyj]

Hello, I just had an extractor fan replaced by an electrician (edit - it's in a bathroom) and found out from him at the end that it's venting into the loft. (I've only just moved in, and so I wasn't aware of this.) I've done some searching and found out that this poses risks for condensation. The property is a flat on the top floor of a Victorian building, though, and I'm not sure whether this is also a problem in older buildings like this where the roofs are perhaps less well sealed - is it still the case?

I have a note saying the roof was insulated to BS 5803 Part 5 1985 standards in 2011, which I understand can make a difference to condensation issues. I'm not sure how well ventilated the loft is. This is in a flat that would have a max of 2 people living here, if that makes any difference.

If this could be an issue, should I turn off the extractor fan until a proper ventilation route has been put in, or can I use it for a while whilst waiting for that work to be done, or would it likely be fine if I use it and just check periodically that condensation doesn't appear to be an issue and only get more work done if it is?

Who would actually be the right type of tradesperson to contact about putting in proper ventilation (e.g. a builder, roofer, electrician, bathroom person)?

Do I also have good reason to complain to the electrician if I cannot use the fan he installed? He had to go into the loft to connect up wiring that had been disconnected (perhaps, now I realise, because the fan shouldn't have been being used), so would have seen early on that the fan was venting into the loft.

 

[BlueLoo]

Depends.......

Is this for a bathroom?
Does it have a shower?

In some instances (like a really poorly sealed loft sat on a house on the lee side of a hill in a valley with high winds and....) you may be ok ventilating into the space. Lots of people do it (unknown or not).

However, Some kit such as showers are getting more popular and more powerful and showers generate lots of water vapor. Ventilating a decent shower into the attic is likely to be an issue, particularly if you have lots of people using them everyday.....

But there is only one way to do a job and that is properly. Sadly, having a !Tradesman" do it probably won't be a guarantee its done properly either as they more than not will fudge or bodge it as well. (maybe not, who's to say).

A properly done job will ensure the room is well ventilated, will not cause dripping or damp to return back down the vent, wont ventilate the loft and will not be so that it causes damp or damage to wherever the vent eventually exhausts too. Its a tricky thing to get right thus most people fudge it.

To do it properly, it needs to be vented outside, complete with back draught preventer, Don't put it near a vented eave as it will just come back into the attic. Don't put it where the condensation can damage the wall or surfaces.
The best solution is either not to go through the ceiling, but (within reason and location) outside through an external wall, or, if you have to go up, run it to a properly designed roof vent tile.

 

[stem]

Friend of mine has just had to have extensive repairs done to the roof timbers of his Victorian villa because a ceiling fan in the bathroom just vented into the loft. Been there about 8 years he reckoned. It is now ducted outside.

I'm not a roofing expert, but my experience with older properties is that usually they don't have the vented lofts that newer buildings do, probably because in the old days with originally just slates there would be a sufficient movement of air, but now with most having been reroofed with membranes under the slates / tiles it will be reduced.

 

[JohnD]

go and have a look in the loft. photograph the fan spigot. Verify that it is not covered in insulation. Phograph the eaves. Can you see daylight? Pull back the insulation if not, on at least two sides to allow airflow. How far is the fan from the eaves? Do you see any other ventilation gaps?

 

[fyj]

Thanks for those replies. Sorry I should have said that the fan is in a bathroom. It sounds like it can't be assumed to have adequate ventilation up there. Would it be clearly noticeable if it were getting too humid after a shower, or would there not be a way until damage had been done to the structure?

Re "having a !Tradesman" do it probably won't be a guarantee its done properly" - I meant tradesperson just as a general term for someone in a profession that works on building stuff, including good people! I'm just wondering who would be the best type of professional to look up? It doesn't seem obvious to me.

 

[fyj]

go and have a look in the loft. photograph the fan spigot. Verify that it is not covered in insulation. Phograph the eaves. Can you see daylight? Pull back the insulation if not, on at least two sides to allow airflow. How far is the fan from the eaves? Do you see any other ventilation gaps?

I saw this after I wrote the above - the fan isn't covered by insulation. The fan is one or two feet from the eaves. When I looked before there only seemed to be daylight from a few holes that might be vents in the tiles - the loft is pretty dark overall.

 

[JohnD]

pull back the insulation (in daylight) and post photos please

A roofer can fit a special tile with a vent. I am generally not in favour of making holes in roofs (especially by unskilled people) as they are intended to keep the rain out.

If you have a gable wall, a large round hole can be drilled by a builder, electrician or plumber, but scaffold or ladder work may be required to fit an external weather vent cover. It would be very dangerous to use the big drill off a ladder.

The advantage of a loft fitting is that you can use a ducted fan, which can be much more powerful and quieter than the typical wall type.

 

[BlueLoo]

Thanks for those replies. Sorry I should have said that the fan is in a bathroom. It sounds like it can't be assumed to have adequate ventilation up there. Would it be clearly noticeable if it were getting too humid after a shower, or would there not be a way until damage had been done to the structure?

Re "having a !Tradesman" do it probably won't be a guarantee its done properly" - I meant tradesperson just as a general term for someone in a profession that works on building stuff, including good people! I'm just wondering who would be the best type of professional to look up? It doesn't seem obvious to me.

I'd get a roofer to fit a vent tile.

Then hook up the vent to the tile myself. He'd probably do that as well if you asked him.

The local handy man will just horse a hose over to the eaves, safe in the knowledge that you'll probably never go up there.....

 

[fyj]

Thanks again.

pull back the insulation (in daylight) and post photos please

I've attached photos of the fan amongst the insulation and how it appears at the edge of the loft with the insulation pulled up - the sun had gone down, but it seems to be all closed up anyway.

 

[JohnD]

looks like the insulation was rucked up to block any eaves ventilation

and your roof is now felted which will also block ventilation

though I think there is something wedging open the overlaps to let air in

the eaves do not seem to have a gap big enough to poke a duct through

by the look of that black powder, you are in an area that was once industrial, or had lots of coal fires. It's possible to hoover it up if you want to (it is very heavy when collected)

 

[BlueLoo]

That last photo is interesting!

What's the electric item?

 

[mattylad]

Looks like n old light fitting minus the bulb and cover.
Absolutely not safe like that if still connected.

I also suspect that the OP is not from Azerbaijan

 

[Harry Bloomfield]

If this could be an issue, should I turn off the extractor fan until a proper ventilation route has been put in, or can I use it for a while whilst waiting for that work to be done, or would it likely be fine if I use it and just check periodically that condensation doesn't appear to be an issue and only get more work done if it is?

No, stop using it and open a window, until a proper duct is installed.

Do I also have good reason to complain to the electrician if I cannot use the fan he installed? He had to go into the loft to connect up wiring that had been disconnected (perhaps, now I realise, because the fan shouldn't have been being used), so would have seen early on that the fan was venting into the loft.

Er, he has done what you requested, why would you grounds for complaining?

 

[BlueLoo]

Er, he has done what you requested, why would you grounds for complaining?

Well, hmm. I see both sides of this argument but its a consequence of the modern, zero-training NMP culture of the trades these days.

I think most experienced, consiensious tradespeople would note to the customer the problems with free venting.

I'd normally blame morality but really, its a consequence of skill and training imho.

 

[securespark]

The way I understand it is that the spark was asked to replace a ceiling fan.

He would have known it was not connected to any ducting but did the job anyway and only said something at the end of the job.

I would not have fitted the fan without the properly routed duct in place.