Festive/Christmas Lighting

[scousespark]

Back when part p was being set up the original justification was it would make domestic installations safer and there were official figures quoting around 7 deaths per year. These stats were discontinued soon after launch so it makes it difficult to determine the true figures now. If we are looking at 22 per year I would say it makes part p look a bit of a failure in safety terms, but it has made the scheme providers richer.

 

[FrodoOne]

Thank you for your responses.

I asked concerning "temporary Festive/Christmas lighting for outdoor, indoor, Christmas Tree use - etc." but I did not specify domestic/non-professional/LED as perhaps I should have.

While I did not mention the "Festoon" lighting (of which I am well aware) I was trying to write a brief question and not a monograph on decorative lighting, as purchased and used by the "General Public".
Of course, "Festoon" lighting connectors are available and used in Australia as in the UK.
( http://www.clipsal.com/Trade/Products/ProductDetail?CatNo=541ANS5&mg=15007&g=15007719)

IIRC there are regulations in Australia intended to protect the income of certain trades.

with which I would agree.

I note that some discussion has occurred concerning relative electrical safety in different countries.
http://www.fairtrading.nsw.gov.au/pdfs/Tradespeople/Electrical_accidents_factsheet.pdf seems to indicate a declining rate in NSW and "consumer deaths" seem to represent only 4 out of the 51 in the period concerned - the others being "electrical workers" (?)
So, one must wonder what 31 of the 35 "Other/General Public" were doing.

("Lies, damned lies, and statistics", attributed by Mark Twain to Disraeli.)

 

[JohnD]

A long time ago, it was normal for UK Christmas tree lights to be mains powered, with 20(?) 12v lamps in series. These were always a source of great irritation, because whenever one or more bulbs failed, the whole lot would go out. The wire used was thin and single-insulated, so they were a bit of a shock hazard and would have been risky outdoors.

I don't know if they were outlawed, but ELV filament lamps came onto the market and were much more convenient, long before the current ranges of LED lamps with various patterns which are cheap and ubiquitous.

I think the mains-voltage ones would have fallen out of use just due to convenience, on top of price and visual effect, without needing a regulation. There would also have been a Product Liability problem for retailer, importers or manufacturers.

 

[JohnD]

So, one must wonder what 31 of the 35 "Other/General Public" were doing.

I think I read that quite a lot of Oz electrocutions are from contact with overhead lines, which are much rarer here. When run to houses, there was (is?) a program to replace bare with insulated cable in the UK, and the operators will, on request, fit protective sleeving if, say, you're mending the roof or painting the house.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

I don't know if they were outlawed

They weren't.

ELV filament lamps came onto the market

12V is ELV.

As are all the 3V filament lamps in my 230V powered tree lights.

I think the mains-voltage ones would have fallen out of use

They haven't, but they are, I'm sure, falling, in the same way that so many people's aesthetic standards seem to fall at Christmas.

visual effect

BIITEO etc. IMO incandescent filament lamps look much nicer than LED.

There would also have been a Product Liability problem for retailer, importers or manufacturers.

They are still on sale, so clearly not.

 

[FrodoOne]

A long time ago, it was normal for UK Christmas tree lights to be mains powered, with 20(?) 12v lamps in series. These were always a source of great irritation, because whenever one or more bulbs failed, the whole lot would go out. The wire used was thin and single-insulated, so they were a bit of a shock hazard and would have been risky outdoors.

I don't know if they were outlawed, but ELV filament lamps came onto the market and were much more convenient, long before the current ranges of LED lamps with various patterns which are cheap and ubiquitous.

I think the mains-voltage ones would have fallen out of use just due to convenience, on top of price and visual effect, without needing a regulation. There would also have been a Product Liability problem for retailer, importers or manufacturers.

Thank you.
That is what I thought, based on Australian experience.

IMO incandescent filament lamps look much nicer than LED.

It is interesting that YOU consider that to be so, It may be true, although I have not noticed it myself.

Of course, the main problem with a decorative series string of incandescent lamps operated directly from the 240 V from the "mains", is that those lamps usually have the "feature" of "short circuiting" when any filament goes open circuit.
However, when this happens, the remaining lamps in the series string are subject to the applied voltage "averaged" across the whole of the other remaining lamps, some of which may then fail, open circuit and then go short circuit - with a cascading effect.

 

[JohnW2]

Of course, the main problem with a decorative series string of incandescent lamps operated directly from the 240 V from the "mains", is that those lamps usually have the "feature" of "short circuiting" when any filament goes open circuit. However, when this happens, the remaining lamps in the series string are subject to the applied voltage "averaged" across the whole of the other remaining lamps, some of which may then fail, open circuit and then go short circuit - with a cascading effect.

Indeed, but the inclusion of one 'fuse lamp' (designed to fail open-circuit, rather than'short-circuiting) is meant to address that problem (before significant 'cascading' occurs).

Kind Regards, John

 

[FrodoOne]

I think I read that quite a lot of Oz electrocutions are from contact with overhead lines, which are much rarer here. When run to houses, there was (is?) a program to replace bare with insulated cable in the UK, and the operators will, on request, fit protective sleeving if, say, you're mending the roof or painting the house.

I am not quite sure what you are attempting ti convey here. The "overhead" 240 V connections from the "mains" to individual houses in Australia are always via insulated conductors to the connection point - as is shown in the illustration below.

 

[JohnD]

hmmm

I wonder if I can track down where I read it.

 

[JohnD]

it probably wasn't this doc, but it says something similar

"Major findings in relation to unintentional electrocution deaths include....

...The most common objects involved included overhead power lines (22.1%), electrical appliances (16.6%) and direct contact with electrical wires (11.6%)


• The most frequent location was the home, and more than half (54.3%) occurred while the deceased was engaged in paid work. Almost two-thirds of unintentional incidents involving overhead power lines occurred during paid work (63.6%). "

http://www.ncis.org.au/wp-content/u...-SHEET-Electrocution-related-deaths-final.pdf

overheads are rarer here. Even when I lived in a rural cottage supplied overhead, there was a pole-mounted transformer nearby, and an armoured cable ran down the pole, into the ground, and entered the house from below. The overhead was high enough for combines and other agricultural machinery to pass beneath.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

However, when this happens, the remaining lamps in the series string are subject to the applied voltage "averaged" across the whole of the other remaining lamps, some of which may then fail, open circuit and then go short circuit - with a cascading effect.

I've never suffered a cascade like that.

I do take care to replace any failed bulbs as soon as I become aware of them, but even that is quite rare.

 

[JohnW2]

I've never suffered a cascade like that. I do take care to replace any failed bulbs as soon as I become aware of them, but even that is quite rare.

Same here, usually. However, I do recall one occasion, a few years ago when, on taking them out of storage for their annual airing (their having worked fine when put into storage a year before), I switched on such a set of lights (quite an old set) and got just a flash of light for a fraction of a second. On investigation, several of the bulbs were dead (closed circuit) but the 'fuse bulb' was intact.

I can but presume that this was the result of a combination of such a 'cascade' and a 'fuse bulb' which did not do what was said on its tin.

Kind Regards, John

 

[FrodoOne]

Same here, usually. However, I do recall one occasion, a few years ago when, on taking them out of storage for their annual airing (their having worked fine when put into storage a year before), I switched on such a set of lights (quite an old set) and got just a flash of light for a fraction of a second. On investigation, several of the bulbs were dead (closed circuit) but the 'fuse bulb' was intact.

I can but presume that this was the result of a combination of such a 'cascade' and a 'fuse bulb' which did not do what was said on its tin.

Kind Regards, John

Well, on one of the several (over 10 years old) mains operated series light christmas displays used in her house, my partner indicated to me that when she placed it in the window she found that five were not working.
Since the others were working, I knew that they were under great stress and disconnected things as soon as possible.

I replaced the failed lamps with spares (now seemingly available only from a site in the UK) and all is well for another year.
(I thought it was going to be a good excuse to replace the item concerned with a LED display, powered by a transformer/voltage converter.)

However, I have never encountered a "Fuse Bulb" in any of these strings.

12V is ELV.

Yes, quite so.

However, in a 240 V series string a 12 V lamp cannot be considered to be operating on ELV.
Surely the whole set-up must be considered and that is operating on 240 V, which is LV.

 

[JohnW2]

However, I have never encountered a "Fuse Bulb" in any of these strings.

Interesting. In contrast, I don't think I have ever encountered a set of mains-operated series lights which did not have a 'fuse bulb' ... and since they always come with at least one spare fuse bulb, I have accumulated quite a stash of them over the years (identified as fuse bulbs by the opaque bit at the tip of the envelope), of which these are a few .....



Kind Regards, John

 

[JohnW2]

What happened to my piccie. Try again ....



Kind Regards, John