Are the filters from dealers better than the pattern ones from car accessory shops?
Filters - Patern parts or genuine from manufacturer
- Thread starter Coaster
- Start date
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The million dollar question Mr C, of which no one can give you the definitive answer.......they should be of course and indeed we hope they are.
I go for motor factor ones personally unless the car is under warranty, but I'm very happy to see Blueprint on the box!
John
I go for motor factor ones personally unless the car is under warranty, but I'm very happy to see Blueprint on the box!
John
I can't for the life of me remember the weblink, but a while back someone on one of the US forums for performance Japanese cars got hold of a number of metal canister type oil filters (For a Nissan I think) - genuine, pattern parts, ebay specials and 'performance' parts, and basically dissected them on a bench to see what the fuss was all about.
I think the upshot was pattern parts were pretty much the same as genuine ones, performance parts didn't seem much different and the ebay cheapies were obviously made to a cheaper standard.
Though of course being an oil filter there's not much room to vary the quality.
I like to buy known brands if I can, some brands will identify themselves as "OEM suppliers to -" or in other words the same stuff you get from the dealer but in a different box. I've actually had some stuff from the dealer that was cheaper than the OEM kit. (Sump for a Seat Leon Diesel, for example, Bosch alternator for the same was also cheaper from Seat main dealers than it was from the local Bosch specialist or any discount auto factors).
I think the upshot was pattern parts were pretty much the same as genuine ones, performance parts didn't seem much different and the ebay cheapies were obviously made to a cheaper standard.
Though of course being an oil filter there's not much room to vary the quality.
I like to buy known brands if I can, some brands will identify themselves as "OEM suppliers to -" or in other words the same stuff you get from the dealer but in a different box. I've actually had some stuff from the dealer that was cheaper than the OEM kit. (Sump for a Seat Leon Diesel, for example, Bosch alternator for the same was also cheaper from Seat main dealers than it was from the local Bosch specialist or any discount auto factors).
Oh that's a really difficult one! Yes, of course, buying genie stuff from the stealer gives you peace of mind, but crikey, they can make you pay for it! I don't have any hard and fast rules for buying genuine or pattern parts. there are to many factors involved. If the car is relatively new and I'm planning on keeping it for a long time, I am more likely to buy genuine. If the consequences of the part failing are very expensive or dangerous, I still might buy genuine - even for an older car. As an example, I've just bought a genuine fuel filter for the wife's car when I service it. Genuine filter cost £40 and they had them on eBay for as little as £10, but as the injection pump on her car costs about £4k, I'm not taking chances! On the other hand, I'm much less bothered about air filters. I'll happily get a pattern one. Living in the wettest part of the UK, we never get enough dust in the air to give an air filter a hard time. Oil filters are somewhere in between. I tend to go for pattern but from big name manufacturers that I've heard of - like Mann, Bosch, Valeo etc.
If I have one golden rule, it's never to buy a part that doesn't have something that looks like a batch code on it. these are usually pin-stamped or applied in some way that can be changed easily (i.e. not stamped or molded into the part). A company that does that, obviously operates at least some sort of traceability standard which suggests quality is at least being monitored! Similarly, stuff that doesn't have a maker's name on it is out. I once bought some cheap no-name brake discs and a week later I had a terrible vibration and found that one of them had developed a crack! I worked at a university at the time and ave it to the materials scientists to look at. Analysis showed it had all sorts of impurities in the casting (basically recycled manhole covers, old fridges etc).
If I have one golden rule, it's never to buy a part that doesn't have something that looks like a batch code on it. these are usually pin-stamped or applied in some way that can be changed easily (i.e. not stamped or molded into the part). A company that does that, obviously operates at least some sort of traceability standard which suggests quality is at least being monitored! Similarly, stuff that doesn't have a maker's name on it is out. I once bought some cheap no-name brake discs and a week later I had a terrible vibration and found that one of them had developed a crack! I worked at a university at the time and ave it to the materials scientists to look at. Analysis showed it had all sorts of impurities in the casting (basically recycled manhole covers, old fridges etc).
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The only ones ive had trouble with and now steer clear of are reisse filters.
The cartridge style with the o ring in the housing have not sealed properly.
Anything from mann, wix or bosch are generally the ones i will go for.
The cartridge style with the o ring in the housing have not sealed properly.
Anything from mann, wix or bosch are generally the ones i will go for.
you can't tell much just by looking at the element of a cut-open oil filter. They all look like crinkly paper stuff. You really need to put one on a test rig with oil that has had known contaminants added and then see how much it will take out. There was a case of a number of batches of counterfeit Caterpillar oil filters (looked like and OE box - even had the hologram on the box, in fact!) but when cut open, the filters were just stuffed with old rags!
Suspension components are tricky. If at all possible, I like to go for a name I've heard of - TRW, Sachs, Valeo etc. If the car is an old shed that I'm just looking to get another year out of, I might go for something cheaper.
I had a mate who used to work for a well-known British suspension joint manufacturer. they supplied some big manufacturers (including Ford). The supply chain is very complex though. The manufacturer would give them a specification that they had to meet if they wanted to supply OE. Taking the example of a balljoint, this would include things like size and sphericalness of the ball, as well as surface roughness for the grinding. It would include material specifications for the plastic socket, plus a load of other things. there would be tolerances for play under load, as well as maximum torque to be applied before it starts to rotate in it's housing. If a balljoint met every stage of the quality control checks as it was made, it would be supplied as OE. If it was near the limit of the specified tolerance on one or more areas, it would go into the car manufacturer's own "genuine replacement parts" packaging. If it failed to meet the manufacturer's limits (say the ball pin was ground a few thousandths of an inch undersize or something like that), it would go into one of this company's "own brand" packages as a replacement suitable for that particular model of car. If it was too far out of spec for their own packaging, there were other retailers who were less proud of their name and brand image, who would take them. Finally, those that were well and truly out of spec were scrapped.
The point is, it's rare that a part is only either "good" or "bad". There's a sliding scale of acceptability with most complex components and the point at which you'd call something "sub-standard" is a pretty fluid sort of concept.
Lastly, there are a few components (replacement silencers, bulbs, brake linings, that (by law) need to be type approved. Whilst not a guarantee of quality, at least if something has an approval number on it, you know it has met at least some test requirements!
Suspension components are tricky. If at all possible, I like to go for a name I've heard of - TRW, Sachs, Valeo etc. If the car is an old shed that I'm just looking to get another year out of, I might go for something cheaper.
I had a mate who used to work for a well-known British suspension joint manufacturer. they supplied some big manufacturers (including Ford). The supply chain is very complex though. The manufacturer would give them a specification that they had to meet if they wanted to supply OE. Taking the example of a balljoint, this would include things like size and sphericalness of the ball, as well as surface roughness for the grinding. It would include material specifications for the plastic socket, plus a load of other things. there would be tolerances for play under load, as well as maximum torque to be applied before it starts to rotate in it's housing. If a balljoint met every stage of the quality control checks as it was made, it would be supplied as OE. If it was near the limit of the specified tolerance on one or more areas, it would go into the car manufacturer's own "genuine replacement parts" packaging. If it failed to meet the manufacturer's limits (say the ball pin was ground a few thousandths of an inch undersize or something like that), it would go into one of this company's "own brand" packages as a replacement suitable for that particular model of car. If it was too far out of spec for their own packaging, there were other retailers who were less proud of their name and brand image, who would take them. Finally, those that were well and truly out of spec were scrapped.
The point is, it's rare that a part is only either "good" or "bad". There's a sliding scale of acceptability with most complex components and the point at which you'd call something "sub-standard" is a pretty fluid sort of concept.
Lastly, there are a few components (replacement silencers, bulbs, brake linings, that (by law) need to be type approved. Whilst not a guarantee of quality, at least if something has an approval number on it, you know it has met at least some test requirements!
If you're interested Peter, I've got 4 litres of genuine Castrol Edge 5w30 in the original bottle - only used once! Yours for £10 ex P&P
I don't think this applies to running spares like filters, but I know that some parts, like headlights, used to be cheaper from the main dealer than from the factors. For Ford at least. Something about keeping insurance repair costs down IIRC. Anyway I know that a Sierra headlight (I did say "used to be" ) was considerably cheaper from the local Ford dealer than from either the local motor factors, or Halfords. Motor factor was actually dearer than Halfords too.
) was considerably cheaper from the local Ford dealer than from either the local motor factors, or Halfords. Motor factor was actually dearer than Halfords too.Well guys, I thought I'd give you a laugh at my expense. Guess who's just paid £45 for a pair of genuine fan belts?! 45 quid!!!! I couldn't believe it! They're for the wife's Nissan X Trail. Unlike the rest of the motoring world, Nissan seem to have stuck with the ancient single V belt design for alternator aircon, water and PAS pumps. Everyone on the X Trail forum says you HAVE to fit genuine belts because all the pattern ones squeal. Like an idiot, I just rang my local stealer and asked them to get a couple in. I thought I might get fleeced for (say) a tenner each, but 45 quid?!
I shall be walking a bit funny for the next week or so...
I shall be walking a bit funny for the next week or so...
Someone's having a bit of a larf there.....I was after belts for a Mazda Bongo recently (hardly the dealers favourite vehicle) and along came 3 belts made by Gates.....£8 each.
John
John
Might be worth having a look somewhere like this place
http://bearingshopuk.co.uk/
I use them for belts for my mower, (£60 "proper" dealer price, £7 for branded one from there) They seem to have every size and shape known to man.
http://bearingshopuk.co.uk/
I use them for belts for my mower, (£60 "proper" dealer price, £7 for branded one from there) They seem to have every size and shape known to man.
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