Finding PROPER heating engineers in our area (Hants/Surrey)

[Locoblade]

Hi All

Other than get 10 people round to quote and gauging their responses, can anyone advise of any tips on finding a heating engineer that knows his stuff and isn't stuck in a rut with regards to what they recommend and fit?

I've had 2 local heating engineers round now and neither have inspired any confidence that they're recommending the best solution for us. We currently have an old back boiler with gravity fed vented HW tank in a 3 bed semi with 1 bathroom. We don't want a combi and Im not sure we have enough water flow/pressure for an unvented system, so we're happy to go with an overhaul of the existing system putting in a new HW tank (the old one is well past its sell by), converting it to fully pumped and siting a new boiler in our utility room.

Having done some background reading on the subject I'd personally like to go with something like a Vaillant boiler with VRC430 weather compensation, but both guys we've had round so far don't seem to know much about weather compensation etc and dismiss it as a gimmick/too complicated (despite one being listed on the Vaillant website), and instead want to fit basic controls such as the Honeywell Y plan pack with a dial thermostat etc! If they had experience of the more modern controls and could qualify why they didn't recommend them I would be happier, but one admitted he'd never fitted that type of control before and before I even mentioned weather control, the other looked at our fairly basic existing programmable Sunvic thermostat (TLX6501) and made a comment to the effect that he "didn't like these complicated things"

The first company have since come back with a quote for over £3500 to fit a Ferroli boiler in the above config, using the basic Y plan Honeywell control pack, the second hasn't yet given us a price but says he'll spec an Ideal boiler. The fact that neither manufacturer seem to get positive comments from others on here and elsewhere leaves me even less convinced of their recommendations!

Help!

 

[JohnD]

Look at the Viessmann 100 Compact for open-vented conventional.

there are one or two installers near you (there is a list on the Website)

It is a very good boiler but not cheap. I don't know if that model has a weather Compensation option but you can have a look. All their others are unvented.

http://www.viessmann.co.uk

I am just a householder

If you want a Vaillant, look at their website and see if they have an Approved Installer list

 

[doitall]

If you're looking for quality boilers the Broag and Atmos are the first choice followed by Viessmann.

Throw anyone that rubbishes weather compensation out the door.

To save your time and trouble, you can get a list of RGIs in your area from the Corgi website, now comes the tricky bit

Ask them on the phone if they are familiar with your choice of boiler including weather compensation, if not thank them for their troubles and put the phone down.

Un-vented cylinder are to be recommended, and its a simple task to measure the flow rate and pressure, any good installer should be able to do that when he turns up to quote, and again if he cannot say goodbye.

 

[Locoblade]

Cheers chaps

John, I'll certainly have a look at the Veissmann and I'll find a few local installers from their listings, although one of the two Ive had round already was from the Vaillant website so that's no guarantee of knowledge either! I must admit my initial leaning towards Vaillant was because I originally investigated putting in a combi and the Vaillants seem to get generally positive comments, but "we" (the missus) have decided we don't want another combi having had one in previous houses and not liked their characteristics, so I should re-do some research based on system/heating only boilers I guess.

Doitall - neither so far have tested the water pressure, although they are both quite local so may know other houses in the area, I'll give them the benefit of the doubt on that one . I've tested flowrate at ~20L/min but I believe we only have a 15mm cold feed into the house which may be an issue with an unvented system?

Why is an unvented system preferable out of interest? Both these installers have dismissed them as "expensive" without discussing the pros/cons. I will say though that we rarely use the bath and have an electric shower so outright flowrate of hot water isn't a huge concern to us (we don't notice now), and I believe pressurising previously gravity fed hot water pipes can sometimes cause water hammer and/or more noise from the taps if restrictors are used to reduce the flow? This admittedly comment from one of the two installers, so may be wrong also!

 

[doitall]

Picking up on a couple of comments you have made.

Noise would not be a problem if the installation was good.

Pressure could be a problem with your existing low pressure taps.

If you have an electric shower and don't wish to change it, then really there's no point in going down the un-vented cylinder road.

Can you narrow the area down to the nearest town

 

[Locoblade]

Cheers for the reply.

When we re-do the bathroom (next year's project) I wouldnt dismiss going to a cylinder fed shower as I assume it would be a bit more economical than running an electric shower twice per day, but Im not sure there'd be enough savings there to warrant paying that much extra for an unvented system? We're in a fairly hard water area so I guess long term it may pay for itself though as the electric showers fur themselves up eventually and need replacing.

The water pressure question got me thinking though so Ive just rigged up an old tyre pressure gauge to a bit of hose and strapped it to the garden tap, and it seems we have about 5 bar of pressure. Assuming my heath-robinson test is in the right ballpark, is 5bar and 20L/min sufficient for an unvented system, despite the 15mm inlet?

Nearest big town BTW is Farnham, we're about 8 miles south of there fairly close to Bordon.

 

[doitall]

4bar sounds about right from memory for that area and the flow would confirm that, the water supplier would give you the average if you phone them.

If you like decent showers then you won't beat an un-vented and tanks in lofts are becoming old hat, in fact I don't think I've installed one in the last 15 years.

 

[Locoblade]

Although we don't have any plans to extend into the loft at the moment, it wouldn't be a bad thing to get rid of the tanks in the loft I guess, to give us more space up there and eliminate the chances of a leak up there.

Changing tack slightly, am I right in saying that a sealed system and an unvented system are not the same thing, and that you can have a sealed vented system which pressurises the heating circuit and ditches the F&E tank in the loft, leaving only the main cold water cistern up in the loft to feed water into the unvented cylinder?

 

[doitall]

A sealed system is for the heating and does away with the smaller header tank.

An Un-vented cylinder does away with the storage tank.

 

[Locoblade]

Thanks, thats what I thought, so if we ditch the F&E we'd be looking at a system boiler rather than a heating only boiler, eg Vaillant 600 series rather than 400? This would then mean our heating circuit would be pressurised from a fill loop off the mains rather than the head of water up to the F&E?

If I remember correctly the first installer mentioned keeping the system as-is (with the F&E) with the reasoning that increasing presure in the heating system can cause leaks if the joints are crap, but the second certainly mentioned about ditching the F&E.

 

[doitall]

No any system can be open vented or sealed with restrictions on the boiler.

The only difference between a system boiler and a heat only is, all the pumps and gadgets are in the case case and much less reliable.

A heat only boiler the pump, MV, expansion vessel etc are all remote, half the cost and easier to service.

 

[JohnD]

That's why I went for the 100 Compact

there's hardly anything in it

 

[Deleted member 105431]

The only difference between a system boiler and a heat only is, all the pumps and gadgets are in the case case and much less reliable.

i don't agree that they are less reliable and they are definately neater and more compact.
Sealed systems are better for corrosion and heat up times and system noise is reduced. I'd recommend the ecotec 600 with weather comp and a magnaclean.

 

[doitall]

The only difference between a system boiler and a heat only is, all the pumps and gadgets are in the case case and much less reliable.

i don't agree that they are less reliable and they are definitely neater and more compact.
Sealed systems are better for corrosion and heat up times and system noise is reduced. I'd recommend the ecotec 600 with weather comp and a magnaclean.

I thought you was an Ecotec Plus 837 man

All the parts inside the case are manufacturer specific and therefore twice the price of an generic component, and in 99% of time the generic part is more reliable.

And when it comes to parts, servicing cost are greatly reduced.

 

[Deleted member 105431]

it depends how much room you have i guess. I'd prefer the system boiler myself.