Fire Angel Smoke/Heat Alarms

[JohnW2]

Watch out from non genuine items on ebay. .... Compare with other genuine sites and if there is a big difference, the bells will start to ring.

Of course - that's why I asked for thoughts (predictable though they were ). I'm as wary as anyone about products from such places, but this situation seemed unusual, since allegedly brand-new products like this are not commonly sold at 'suspiciously low' prices, even on eBay

Having previously just 'glanced', I've now looked more carefully at the (very many) listings. Quite a lot are offers of just one item from 'private sellers' (who may or may not be different from one another!) with very little eBay history, and some had appreciable"P&P" charges which I hadn't noticed before - and I would avoid them like the plague. However, some are from very well-established commercial eBay sellers with good feedback and who have appreciable stock ("10+available") - and I would be a bit less nervous about them.

I'm also come across one possible explanation which could apply if these offers are 'genuine'. I've just had contact with a friend who until recently worked for an electrical wholesaler. He said, not unreasonably, that 'time-limited' products were a nightmare for wholesalers, because end-users would not be happy with a product which, when bought, had less than its advertised 10 year life left -= which, in turn, meant that distributors and retailers would often not accept stock if the point of '10 years to expiry date' was approaching, let alone passed. He also added that, because retailers and distributors were also 'taking risk' with these time-limited products, their mark-up was very high, such that the actual wholesale price was nothing like as high as one might imagine.

He therefore said that, as a result of all that, it was not unusual for (genuine) stock of this type to be 'off-loaded at knock-down prices), as a means of 'cutting losses'. Having now looked, in the (relatively few) cases in which the month as well as year (2035) of expiry is stated in eBay listings, it is always in the first few months of 2035 - so we're approaching the point at which the product would not have the advertised "10-year life".

It's an interesting theory, but I have no idea as to whether or not it is relevant to any of what I'm looking at!

When I pass on the 'collective thoughts' about all this, I will obviously include a strong caveat about anything to do with the likes of eBay (although I have to say that my personal experiences of eBay over the past couple of decades have generally been very happy (lucky?!) ones)

Kind Regards, John

 

[JohnW2]

Ebay - the realm of stolen, fake and broken, and where shady businesses masquerading as 'private sellers' will offload any old tat with no consequences.
Buy there and expect trouble.

We know all that, but see what I've just written in response to Jurassicspark

Also, for what it's worth, as I've also just written, I've bought thousands of things through the likes eBay etc., (many excellent, and 'bargains' )and have very very rarely encounter any of the "trouble" that you advise me to expect.

 

[JohnW2]

The vast majority of properties with alarms already in place in this area are Aico. .... New ones fit onto the same backplate that's they have been using for the last 25 years, which makes replacements a 10 second job.

Indeed, once one has 'jumped in', the convenient thing is to allow oneself to be 'tied to them for life'.

New installs get Aico because of these reasons. Absolutely no reason or benefit to switch to some other incompatible brand just because they exist.

"Just because they exist" would indeed be silly. However, if 'equal or better' products existed,at lower cost, it woukld probably be equally silly not to at least consider them, at least for new installs.

 

[ebee]

Ebay - the realm of stolen, fake and broken, and where shady businesses masquerading as 'private sellers' will offload any old tat with no consequences.
Buy there and expect trouble.

A pal of mine consulted me about about something he bought on Fleabay.
I advised him of my simple premise, never ever ever buy from Fleabay is a good starting principle. (Just to be fair I have purchased a couple of good things there from private sellers but I am also aware of things that enhance my little motto from one extreme to another, it seems rife, a family member used to trade a lot on it both as a buyer and a seller and has give me plenty of examples from both viewpoints, this has confirmed my principle too, buyer beware and seller beware has to be a good starting point)

 

[ebee]

"flameport said:
The vast majority of properties with alarms already in place in this area are Aico. .... New ones fit onto the same backplate that's they have been using for the last 25 years, which makes replacements a 10 second job."

Yes a very valid consideration too, I totally agree.

 

[Gigagator]

I rather feel you have missed the point I made in my earlier post.

The company clearly misled on their claims for the products expected lifespan.
They then proceeded to send out replacements under warranty that were, in my experience, even worse affected.

For me it's not a matter of saving a few roubles, it's potentially a matter of life and death. It's a question of trust in the brand.

A willingness to sell a sub-par life saving device is reckless in the highest order.

You'd really risk your or your families lives for the sake of £60?

 

[JohnW2]

A pal of mine consulted me about about something he bought on Fleabay. I advised him of my simple premise, never ever ever buy from Fleabay is a good starting principle.

With respect, I think that a blanket 'warning off' in relation to eBay (or similar) is a little silly - it's the sellers that matter, not eBay (or whatever) itself.

One certainly has to be very careful about 'fly-by-night' transient private sellers (the safest approach being to just 'steer clear' of them!). In a good few cases they may be (perhaps'iffy') people who repeatedly set up new eBay accounts, user different user names, very often

However, although such sites started life primarily in relation to small 'private sellers', there are now countless large (and 'reputable') commercial businesses who use eBay as one way of selling their products - and neither their service nor their products are any worse when bought through eBay than when bought in any other way. In addition to the inevitable large number of "large and reputable commercial sellers" that one has never heard of, some 'household names' are also there. Until fairly recently, Argos sold some products via eBay, and I believe that Toolstation still do, and I imagine that there are plenty of others ...

As an example, I often buy from this company, which, as you can see, had totted up 2.2 million sales items on eBay, so they probably are satisfying most of their customers ...

As I said, over the past couple of decades I have bought ('carefully'!) literally thousands of items through eBay (a good few from 'private sellers', and have very very rarely had any problem with either the products or the services - and on the very very few occasions there have been problems, eBay has usually helped resolve the problem in a manner that would probably not be so easy if one were dealing 'directly' with a seller. Of course, if one buys something which is 'cheap and nasty', one may get what one deserves - but that's true regardless of the process whereby one buys it.

It's not really anything new. In my youth, long before the Internet existed, if products I wanted were not available from local shops, I had to buy 'by post' on the basis of adverts in the likes of "Exchange and Mart", local newspapers etc. - and that was probably at least as 'iffy'as buying via eBay etc. As you say, it always has been, and continues to be, a matter of "caveat emptor"

Kind Regards, John

 

[JohnW2]

I rather feel you have missed the point I made in my earlier post.

I don't really think that I missed any points - which I addressed at length in response to your 'earlier post'

The company clearly misled on their claims for the products expected lifespan. They then proceeded to send out replacements under warranty that were, in my experience, even worse affected. For me it's not a matter of saving a few roubles, it's potentially a matter of life and death. It's a question of trust in the brand. A willingness to sell a sub-par life saving device is reckless in the highest order. You'd really risk your or your families lives for the sake of £60?

To reiterate what I wrote before .... everything you wrote appeared to relate to the premature failure of branded batteries - which FireAngel presumably expected to last for as long as claimed by the manufacturers of those batteries.

Furthermore, as I wrote before, the two products I was talking/asking about were both mains-powered, with the batteries only there as backup in the case of failure of the mains supply. Hence, even if the batteries did fail prematurely, there would only be "a matter of life and death" if a fire were to arise when there was a failure of the mains supply during a period when the 'low battery' alarm was sounding - which I would suggest would be an incredibly improbable scenario,

 

[JohnW2]

Yes a very valid consideration too, I totally agree.

Indeed - as I wrote, once one has decided to go with any particular brand (even if it is the most expensive one), one's subsequent life becomes easier if one allows oneself to be 'tied to that brand for life'

 

[JohnW2]

Ebay - the realm of stolen, fake and broken, and where shady businesses masquerading as 'private sellers' will offload any old tat with no consequences.
Buy there and expect trouble.

A pal of mine consulted me about about something he bought on Fleabay. I advised him of my simple premise, never ever ever buy from Fleabay is a good starting principle.

In the context of the Aico alarms, I've been looking more widely, and I think the issue is somewhat wider than eBay (and blanket 'anti-eBay viewpoints) ....

... Toolstation and Screwfix sell the Aico Ei3016 for £51.49. However, this (seemingly fairly small) company (click here) offer them for £*****, not far from the ballpark of many of the eBay sellers. ...

So what do people thing about that source? If they were selling through eBay, many would probably advise keeping away from them- but, given that they are not selling through eBay, should one 'trust" them, or should one keep away from them on the basis of the price they're offering, and the fact that they are not a 'household name'? In other words, is the question of whether or not they sell through eBay necessarily all that relevant?

 

[trojanhawrs]

+1 for ebay not just being full of dodgy or cheap crap. If they offer the fast and free delivery they're a volume sales business often without the overheads and maintenance of a website/shop. They can afford to undercut other vendors on price.

 

[JohnW2]

+1 for ebay not just being full of dodgy or cheap crap. If they offer the fast and free delivery they're a volume sales business often without the overheads and maintenance of a website/shop. They can afford to undercut other vendors on price.

Exactly, but the difficulty is (just as it is with businesses which are not trading through eBay) is in distinguishing between the white and black sheep, particularly when the price they are offering is 'surprisingly low'.

As I wrote before,what matters is the seller, regardless of whether or not they trade through eBay - but with the remaining problem of white/black sheep(whether or not they use eBay).

 

[flameport]

If they offer the fast and free delivery they're a volume sales business often without the overheads and maintenance of a website/shop.

Business sellers on ebay have to pay eBay's massive fees instead, including the monthly shop subscription fee, fees based on a percentage of every sale, and plenty of other 'optional' items. Then there is the vast hassle of actually listing and managing items on ebay.

Piles of cost, piles of maintenance and piles of bother, due to the type of customer that ebay typically attracts.

 

[flameport]

However, if 'equal or better' products existed,at lower cost, it woukld probably be equally silly not to at least consider them, at least for new installs.

Perhaps - but a quick look at the Fire angel products reveals that they are neither better or cheaper in any significant way.

 

[JohnW2]

Business sellers on ebay have to pay eBay's massive fees instead, including the monthly shop subscription fee, fees based on a percentage of every sale, and plenty of other 'optional' items. Then there is the vast hassle of actually listing and managing items on ebay. Piles of cost, piles of maintenance and piles of bother, due to the type of customer that ebay typically attracts.

Those are all considerations, but I can but presume that a lot of businesses nevertheless see selling through eBay (as well as by other methods) to be worthwhile, since there are plenty who have totted up sales (and, in some cases, even positive feedbacks) which are "in 6 or 7 figures".

The additional costs and hassle to which you refer obviously only relate to their sales through eBay, but I imagine that those eBay sales significantly increase their total sales (by all methods) thereby making the eBay part of their business worthwhile..

As you perhaps imply,their are probably some buyers who will always look to eBay 'for anything', so a business which doesn't have an eBay presence will lose some potential sales to other sellers. Even though, as you say, it comes at a cost (financial and otherwise, using a platform like eBay brings a business's products to the attention of a vastly greater number of potential customers than they are likely to achieve by any other method.