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Fire door and rebate for hinges - interfere with intumescent strip

Discussion in 'Windows and Doors' started by kingandy2nd, 20 Jun 2021.

  1. kingandy2nd

    kingandy2nd

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    Hey all,

    Fitting my first fire door today.


    As per the picture, it’s got an intumescent strip and smoke seal.

    My question is about the hinges. Normally I’d rebate them, but won’t this interfere with the strip?

    Ive got fire hinges, but they don’t have their own intumescent stuff.

    Should I just plonk the hinge on without rebating it?

    Thanks
    Andy

    FC566322-8C95-40C7-A0F7-44924A82FB8F.jpeg
     
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  3. JohnD

    JohnD

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    you rebate them, and put an intumescent pad under each leaf of each hinge.

    you can also get intumescent pads and wrappers for mortice locks and other door furniture.

    there's a good range of products here

    there must be a leaflet somewhere showing the requirements. Maybe BC at your local council?

    edit

    btw the self-adhesive strip sticks better, and looks neater, if you apply it after painting.

    have you bought the hinges yet? I favour lift-offs, as it is very wearisome taking a heavy door off and refitting it.
     
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  4. kingandy2nd

    kingandy2nd

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    Thanks.

    I like that website but everything is in bulk, so I’ve ordered the bits from screw fit
     
  5. JobAndKnock

    JobAndKnock

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    Fire door hinges are normally bearing types these days, so I very much doubt you'll find lift off fire rated hinges (or at least I've never seen them specified)

    OP - the intumescent requirements are partly down to the rating. Is this a 30 minute, 60 minute or 120 minute opening?

    Intumescent pads for the hinges require the hinge recesses to be about 1mm deeper to accommodate them.
     
    Last edited: 23 Jun 2021
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  6. crank39

    crank39

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    Don't you have to be FIRAS accredited to fit fire doors now?
     
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  7. kingandy2nd

    kingandy2nd

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    Thanks. I had to get bearing hinges as I couldn’t find lift offs. It’s an FD 30 door between the garage and the house in my extension.
     
  8. kingandy2nd

    kingandy2nd

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    Google seems to indicate this is a voluntary scheme
     
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  10. JohnD

    JohnD

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    I have them almost exclusively.

    Also branded as Eclipse, Union, Royde & Tucker, etc
    Though I suspect they all come from the same factory.
    Prices vary.

    Example
    https://www.ironmongerydirect.co.uk...hinge-100x88x3mm-right-hand-satin-zinc-139999

    upload_2021-6-23_9-9-44.png

    I prefer them in stainless, or the difficult to find PVD finish.

    Mine have a phosphor-bronze bearing (not balls) and swing like silk.
     
  11. JobAndKnock

    JobAndKnock

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    It is, but on public buildings (e.g hospitals, etc) the work has to be certified by a trained individual. Doesn't apply to private dwellings
     
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  12. ^woody^

    ^woody^

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    Here we go again, I've never got an answer to this even off supposed 'experts' and manufacturers .... what is the point of an intumescent pad behind a hinge - the whole point of intumescent material is to expand and seal gaps?

    Just cut the strip to the hinge.
     
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  13. ^woody^

    ^woody^

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    No.

    The only criteria is to follow the manufacturer's fitting instructions, but there is no law or precedent that the fitter needs to be specially trained or that the installation is subsequently checked by someone who is.
     
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  14. crank39

    crank39

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    It's ok following manufacturers instructions but would Joe bloggs be able to implement them, I mean my mum can follow instructions but would she be able to shoot a door in to leave a 2mm gap all the way around never mind a set of double doors, surely for them to be effective as a fire stop they need to be fitted by a competent person who has proven with accreditation they he/she is or that they are inspected by BC, if no to any of that then why even bother fitting intumescent strips and hinge pads and shoot it in leaving a 5mm gap? Just saying, not dissing the OP
     
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  15. JobAndKnock

    JobAndKnock

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    You might as well ask what the point of wrapping lock bodies in intumescent "paper". It is not only to fill gaps but also, because the intumescent compound is an insulator, to reduce transmission of heat through metal components. That was the official line I was given on a fire safety training course a few years ago as being "current thinking" at the time. So whilst I don't like them (they makesesting the hinges into recesses more awkward), I do fit them.

    BTW the tutor was a serving fire officer, so Iexpect he knew his stuff. Also, if you are in room where the intumescent strips have done their job in the door, you are probably dead, because they only work at very high temperatures - their function is to slow the spread of fire, enabling people to escape.
     
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