I have just had one of these fitted in my kitchen. The copper feed was left under the floorboards and in order to get into this the fitter connected the narrower pipe and bent it (both hot and cold). This previously went directly into a bath tap which had great pressure, that good it was worth commenting on (the hot as well). THe new tap barely trickles on hot. The cold is okay but not earth shattering. I undertsand a bit about the need to have a reasonable pressue, in fact I picked this tap cos it said i needed at least 1 BAR, we had way better than this so did not envisage a problem. Anyone else had this problem or experience of this particular tap?
Franke Pilatus Tap with spray
- Thread starter iasku
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Cos I'm not stupid! ...in addition to which when I tried to fill a measuring jug from the bath tap, on hot, turned on full, it splashed up and over the sides, until I turned it down, this rendered it NOT WORTH timing for the BAR rate. When I do the same with the new tap, I don't have the time to waste waiting for it to fill....Next Question!
Sorry, but I can't tell whether you are trying to be helpful or not...apologies if you are, and now you Know how I know.
Sorry, but I can't tell whether you are trying to be helpful or not...apologies if you are, and now you Know how I know.
whats the bar rate ? 
£4 an hour
£4 an hour
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Hi Kevplumb....I think its around 14.5PSI but then I could be wrong...after all it could be BAAAARRR...and then I'd really be feeling sheepish about this question!
If your Bar RATE IS ONLY £4.00 PER HR, you must be getting loads of offers to stand you a night out, 'cheap as chips!'?...Or do you expect BOTH, drinks first and chips after...knew it was probably too good to be true!?
Anyway, does anyone know anything, about my original question? I'm learning a lot(?) but I'm not quite sure what or where its getting me!
Still some response is better than none (this marginal, although I'm not sure what the rate of measurement is for this!)
If your Bar RATE IS ONLY £4.00 PER HR, you must be getting loads of offers to stand you a night out, 'cheap as chips!'?...Or do you expect BOTH, drinks first and chips after...knew it was probably too good to be true!?
Anyway, does anyone know anything, about my original question? I'm learning a lot(?) but I'm not quite sure what or where its getting me!
Still some response is better than none (this marginal, although I'm not sure what the rate of measurement is for this!)
You said that the tap required at least 1 bar and asserted that you "had way better than that".
I asked you how you knew. Perhaps you'd measured it? But no. I now know that despite your confidence you haven't a clue what you're talking about, ok? But you obviously think you do. How tiresome.
You do not get whatever you think a "bar rate" is, by measuring flow. That only gives you a flow rate. A bucket of water poured from a height of 1 metre would give you a lot of "splashing up the side", would it not? But that would be a pressure of one tenth of a bar.
Pressure is measured in bar, equivalent to 10 metres height of a column of water. Analogous to voltage.
Flow is measured in, say, litres per minute. Analogous to current.
You can have a great deal of one with very little of the other.
If your taps are designed for pressures typical on continental Europe, around 3 bar, they may not work at all well with your situation. You haven't told us anything about your water supplies, but it may well be that you have a cold mains pressure of one bar and hot water fed from a tank in the loft, giving you about half a bar.
I asked you how you knew. Perhaps you'd measured it? But no. I now know that despite your confidence you haven't a clue what you're talking about, ok? But you obviously think you do. How tiresome.
You do not get whatever you think a "bar rate" is, by measuring flow. That only gives you a flow rate. A bucket of water poured from a height of 1 metre would give you a lot of "splashing up the side", would it not? But that would be a pressure of one tenth of a bar.
Pressure is measured in bar, equivalent to 10 metres height of a column of water. Analogous to voltage.
Flow is measured in, say, litres per minute. Analogous to current.
You can have a great deal of one with very little of the other.
If your taps are designed for pressures typical on continental Europe, around 3 bar, they may not work at all well with your situation. You haven't told us anything about your water supplies, but it may well be that you have a cold mains pressure of one bar and hot water fed from a tank in the loft, giving you about half a bar.
You are of course right ChrisR, I shouldn't be using the term 'BAR RATE', but it did give someone the chance to be funny .... others to delight in me being wrong. Firstly, until I entered the realms of plumbing information (from plumbers!), I felt I knew what BAR meant. (there are sports where you need to know.) Secondly, my test with the measuring jug came under instruction from the technical department of Mira Showers, they seemed to think there was some correlation between PSI and Flow Rate. It would make sense to me if the PSI remained constant then the flow rate would also and if the PSI reduces, by say a tank in the loft emptying quicker than it can re-fill, would reduce a flow rate.
You are right ChrisR, on many fronts, if I knew what I was talking about, I wouldn't be asking questions on here. AND, we do have a tank in the loft, approx 10m above the level of my tap. I did say in the original question that I was told that I needed 1 BAR for this tap. I still believe I had this, please tell me how to measure it if the Mira man was wrong. If it had appeared marginal I would have checked it more accurately before fitting the tap.
However, I realise (sorry, 'I think') the bore of the pipe affects this, which is determined by the tap connections. This all comes down to my original question, has anyone got experience of this PARTICULAR tap?
You are right ChrisR, on many fronts, if I knew what I was talking about, I wouldn't be asking questions on here. AND, we do have a tank in the loft, approx 10m above the level of my tap. I did say in the original question that I was told that I needed 1 BAR for this tap. I still believe I had this, please tell me how to measure it if the Mira man was wrong. If it had appeared marginal I would have checked it more accurately before fitting the tap.
However, I realise (sorry, 'I think') the bore of the pipe affects this, which is determined by the tap connections. This all comes down to my original question, has anyone got experience of this PARTICULAR tap?
1 bar would be he minimum the manufacturer decides is reasonable - but they're biased. I wouldn't use any "high pressure" tap (which is what you have) on other than mains or pumped supplies.
Of course there's a correlation between pressure and flow, but measuring one doesn't give you the other if you don't know the resistance.
You measure pressure at zero flow first, with a simple guage. The working pressure at the tap is less because of losses in the pipe, but if you do have 10m head then those losses won't be too significant compared with the resistance of the tap you have. A normal bath tap gives 20 litres/minute with a 2.5 metre head (=1/4 bar). A High Pressure tap would give about the same flow with 3 bar (30 meters) pressure up its bum. So the detail of your particular tap or pipes, is relatvely insignificant.
I'm "doing" my own bathroom and the taps I want don't work well enough on low pressure, so a pump's going in. 4 bar should be enough. (Actually its just the biggest I could find)
One option for you to improve things generally would be to put a pump in - possibly on the whole house. 1.5 bar or more would be a an improvement especially for showers. The better ones are quite quiet. It wouldn't affect the cold flow at the kitchen tap though - you can't pump the mains even if it's poor.
Of course there's a correlation between pressure and flow, but measuring one doesn't give you the other if you don't know the resistance.
You measure pressure at zero flow first, with a simple guage. The working pressure at the tap is less because of losses in the pipe, but if you do have 10m head then those losses won't be too significant compared with the resistance of the tap you have. A normal bath tap gives 20 litres/minute with a 2.5 metre head (=1/4 bar). A High Pressure tap would give about the same flow with 3 bar (30 meters) pressure up its bum. So the detail of your particular tap or pipes, is relatvely insignificant.
I'm "doing" my own bathroom and the taps I want don't work well enough on low pressure, so a pump's going in. 4 bar should be enough. (Actually its just the biggest I could find)
One option for you to improve things generally would be to put a pump in - possibly on the whole house. 1.5 bar or more would be a an improvement especially for showers. The better ones are quite quiet. It wouldn't affect the cold flow at the kitchen tap though - you can't pump the mains even if it's poor.
Thanks for that ChrisR.
I have been advised to fit a pump just for this tap. The thing is, we previously built a house with a pumped system. This was fine. Like I said, I really appreciate all you say but the rest of the house has such good 'flow rate' / 'pressure' (how ever I should term it) that I do not believe a Gold Pump, for instance, would make a difference, although obviously it would to this tap. I just wanted to be sure that it was not the fitting of this tap (the connection to the remainder of the system) or just MY tap, or the model/make. By comparing with someone who has one, whether they had a problem or how they have it connected, would have helped me to reconcile the issue. To put a pump where only this tap is connected instead of changing it, if its faulty, would not be the answer.
I am not a plumber, I am not clever but I am usually logical and find this doesn't fit easily into 'I don't have enough pressure', which is what the supplier/fitter said, without trying any other tap or water source in the property.
I have been advised to fit a pump just for this tap. The thing is, we previously built a house with a pumped system. This was fine. Like I said, I really appreciate all you say but the rest of the house has such good 'flow rate' / 'pressure' (how ever I should term it) that I do not believe a Gold Pump, for instance, would make a difference, although obviously it would to this tap. I just wanted to be sure that it was not the fitting of this tap (the connection to the remainder of the system) or just MY tap, or the model/make. By comparing with someone who has one, whether they had a problem or how they have it connected, would have helped me to reconcile the issue. To put a pump where only this tap is connected instead of changing it, if its faulty, would not be the answer.
I am not a plumber, I am not clever but I am usually logical and find this doesn't fit easily into 'I don't have enough pressure', which is what the supplier/fitter said, without trying any other tap or water source in the property.
what narrower pipe (first post)
what size is the inlet to the tap ?
what size is the inlet to the tap ?
The feed to the 'bath' (which is now replaced by kitchen tap), was 22mm, this has been taken down to 15mm then brought up and across for connection to 15mm 'flexible tails' on tap feed. I think, apart from the flexible tails, this is 'standard' feed to other than a bath for instance? What the bore of these tails is, I can't be sure. Apart from the installation instructions referring to a 15mm by 15mm compression joint, there are no sizes on the document. It does say the tap complies to UK standards, the operating 'pressure' to be between 0.3 and 6 BAR, the recommended pressure to between 1 and 5 BAR.
Is this the info you ask for Kevplumb?
Is this the info you ask for Kevplumb?
What flow rates are you actually getting? (H and C)
Call Franke and ask them what pressure they would expect to correspond to what you're getting. Even THEY would have to look it up, none of us is likely to come up with it.
Call Franke and ask them what pressure they would expect to correspond to what you're getting. Even THEY would have to look it up, none of us is likely to come up with it.
dont flexis restrict the flow?
ahh point taken
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