Garage and Shed Electrics

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The power to my detached garage is fed by a Crabtree 40amp 2 pole RCCB (30mA trip) located in the house. The cable runs 30 ft underground through a heavy duty sheath and appears as red, black and earth in a metal box at low level in the garage. It is joined in the box to a power cable which runs to the Supply in a fused switched connection box. Lighting in the garage runs from the Load side. Also connected to the Supply side is a cable running to two double sockets and two single, one of which is in an adjacent firmly bedded shed adjacent to the garage.
I need to add at least another three double sockets inside the garage and outside. Would the best way be to set up a ring from the Metal Box or the Switched Fused Connection Box (Supply side) or is there another way ? Neither box seems to have sufficient space inside for additional wiring.
 
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All 7 wires coming into the Metal Box are white. 4 connect to a four wire cable which runs to a two-way switch which controls a light outside of the garage. The other two-way switch is in the house and it is powered from one of the ways on the Consumer Board in the house. There is no cross-connection to the garage internal power/lighting system so effectively it is independent of the garage electrics.
The other 3 white incoming wires connect to the red, black and earth of a cable which is partially hidden behind the two-way cable and runs from the metal box up into the side of the Fused Connection Unit (Supply). The photograph shows that cable plus the second cable coming from the Supply to the power sockets. The Black, Red and Earth wires coming out of the side and running into the Junction Box are powering the lighting circuit and are fed from the Load side.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v217/B1gEars/RCCB.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v217/B1gEars/MetalBox.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v217/B1gEars/FusedConnectionUnit.jpg
 
Sorry, but I found all that lot quite confusing. However.

You have not said how thick the underground cables are. This limits their current capacity. You have not told us what size breaker limits current at the moment. The 40A RCCB is designed to carry a maximumof 40A, but it will not turn off high cuurents. It checks for earth leakage faults. There should also be a mcb providing power to it and limiting the current. I would guess this is 16 or 20 A. Could be anything, without checking.

What size cable is used now between the sockets? It seems most likely that you can continue this same sized cable to as many sockets as you like without forming a ring. Making a ring allows more current to be supplied, but your circuit should right now be current protected back at your cu. If what you need is more current as well as more sockets, then this other information is needed. It may not be possible to supply more current through your underground cable.

If desperate, you might be able to rewire the 4 two-way switch wires to provide 2 extra power connections. Or they might be thick enough already. can't tell. If they are, then yes, you might be able to run a ring to distribute the power.
 
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It looks like a multicore 2.5 or 1.5 to me. Several white cores. Scrap left overs I guess, although it looks as though the lights and sockets may be on seperate circuits in the multicore, or he may well have ringed the sockets through the mutlicore.


Before you ad sockets, I think you need to sort the others out first - that installation looks appalling :eek: And needs some TLC.


Where does the armoured cable terminate in the house?? Any chance of a photo of inside that joint?
 
the multicore is used to give him two way switching for a light and power to the garage, interesting way of doing it!
 
How have you come by this info?? Are you sorting his problem via other means ;)

I have my outside lights 2 way switched from garage and house - via a 4 core SWA. The garage still has a seperate submain for power and lights.
 
Lectrician said:
How have you come by this info?? Are you sorting his problem via other means ;)

no he just says so in one of his posts! although it isn't ultra clear! i'd agree that a seperate cable would be better.

looking at the photos the installation is a mess, no earth sleeving! and random junction boxes.
 
Couldnt tell from the photo how thick the white cables are, but they looked thicker than the coloured ones in this metal junction box. But then, it is not clear if any of those going to the socket are 2.5s or just 1.5/1.
 
ChrisRogers said:
Lectrician said:
How have you come by this info?? Are you sorting his problem via other means ;)

no he just says so in one of his posts! although it isn't ultra clear! i'd agree that a seperate cable would be better.

looking at the photos the installation is a mess, no earth sleeving! and random junction boxes.

LOL - Don't I feel the fool :oops:
 
Lectrician said:
that installation looks appalling :eek: And needs some TLC.

ChrisRogers said:
looking at the photos the installation is a mess, no earth sleeving! and random junction boxes.

No earth sleeving.

No red sleeving on live, non-red cores.

No grommets.

Plastic surface mount accessories in a garage.

Light switch faceplate held on with screws unsuited to damp environments.

Entry hole in FCU pattress apparently made with a broken bottle.

In the trunking just below the FCU there appears to be a protruding nail head ideally placed to chafe the cable.

Unsheathed cores exposed (admittedly not by much)

No sign of the armour being properly earthed.

No sign of supports for the vertical cable runs.
 
Thanks for all the feedback.
The house and garage are twelve years old and everything was installed by the builders except for the Junction Box in the garage which powers the security light (I connected into the lighting circuit some years ago to do that). I also extended the power lead that feeds out of the Fused Connection Box in the garage by connecting into the back of the double socket that the builders installed ( not pictured). Consequently, my knowledge of exactly what is there is a bit limited.

Inside the house no cables are visible and I can only tell that the RCCB feeds the garage by switching it to OFF and watching the garage lights go out. The Consumer Unit which sits above the RCCB only supplies the house so there is no mcb feeding the RCCB. The small grey box adjacent to the RCCB has the name Frieldland on it, and is part of the front door bell system.

Inside the metal box, the seven white wires are serially numbered 1 to 7 but there are no other markings at all. There is no marking on the armoured cable.

The cable running from the metal box to the fused connection unit was clearly dragged along the ground at some time because the markings have all but disappeared. However, that it not too important as I can easily replace it, as I can the rest of the system inside the garage.

A ring has some advantages in that the metal box is at the rear of the garage in a corner and I want to install sockets near to the front, along the rear wall, on the opposite side wall and up in the roof (to feed a door opener). A ring seems to be the obvious solution, but I wasn't sure if this was permissible when it was supplied by a single "cable" (i.e. the white wires). The shed would then be spurred off that ring.

The four white wires operating the two way light, which seem to be the same size as the three delivering power, have changed colour to the more conventional red, black, yellow, earth by the time they appear in the light switch in the house. There is no obvious junction box inside the house where they connect into the ring. I know that they do draw power from one of the rings in the house because the light goes out when I switch the mcb in the Consumer Unit OFF.

It seems to me that the fundamental question is the size of the three underground power (live, neutral earth) cables. Can it be measured ?

One further question, I have acquired an old laboratory bench to use in the garage and there is provision for sockets to be mounted on an upstand on the bench. When assembled, the bench will be immovable. Am I correct in assuming that I will need Fused Connection Boxes on the ring to feed each socket which will be several inches away from rear wall of the garage to which the ring will be fixed. ?

Thanks again for the help.
 
Big Ears said:
Inside the house no cables are visible and I can only tell that the RCCB feeds the garage by switching it to OFF and watching the garage lights go out. The Consumer Unit which sits above the RCCB only supplies the house so there is no mcb feeding the RCCB.
I sincerely hope you are wrong about that...

One further question, I have acquired an old laboratory bench to use in the garage and there is provision for sockets to be mounted on an upstand on the bench. When assembled, the bench will be immovable. Am I correct in assuming that I will need Fused Connection Boxes on the ring to feed each socket which will be several inches away from rear wall of the garage to which the ring will be fixed. ?
Why do you think you need FCUs for these sockets and not the others?
 

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