Gas flue modification carried out without permission!

[billy bob]

Your neighbours may be able to complain about the flue discharging on their property, but they have no right to attach anything to your parents property, that is also trespass, they also had no right to alter the flue.

 

[DeeDee08]

gigz wrote:
How would you prove who actually modified the flue ?


They provided a bill and a demand for payment for the "service" provided.


Oh i see, just out of curiosity how much did they charge

I think it was in the region of £150... they didn't pay it!

 

[DeeDee08]

Try this link Dee

http://www.opsi.gov.uk/SI/si1994/Uksi_19941886_en_1.htm[/QUOTE]

Thank you for that - there is a lot to read there.
I'm sure it will be nearly as exciting as the Party Wall etc Act 1996, which proved to be an effective sleep aid when I ploughed through it to prove that the wall in question was not a Party Wall.

 

[ChrisR]

Dee I gave you that link several pages ago, but don't bother going into it. In the same way anyone vaguely aware of building law would have been able to tell you that wasn't a party wall, we are telling you that you're wasting your time.
The only prevailing tort is the shed, being fixed on your property. If that bothers you then you can eventually force them to move it. If not, leave it there but remind them every time they send you silly bills.

 

[DeeDee08]

Dee I gave you that link several pages ago, but don't bother going into it. In the same way anyone vaguely aware of building law would have been able to tell you that wasn't a party wall, we are telling you that you're wasting your time.
The only prevailing tort is the shed, being fixed on your property. If that bothers you then you can eventually force them to move it. If not, leave it there but remind them every time they send you silly bills.

Thank you - if you did I missed it as I have been away from my computer and may have skipped your post. Your comment about party walls is interesting as both the local MP's office, the police and the Council insisted that the wall *was* a Party Wall, which is why I read the act, so I could quote it to them!

In addition to the shed being fixed to the wall, there have been accusations of trespass against my parents who have been accused of entering the neighbour's garden and creating a nuisance. My father can barely walk as the result of a degenerative nerve condition and my mother is tiny. They also accused her of punching through a wooden fence. This may be trivial to you, but it has affected them very badly.

 

[ChrisR]

The wall meets the boundary but does not cross it. It is not a party wall as it encloses one dwelling and is not shared.

Hardly the science of the moonly rockets.
If the wall's entirely on your property it can't be a party wall.

I can understand your anxiety but that doesn't affect the issue. We're all liable to get scared half to death by ridiculous neighbours when we get old. My wife and I have stood up against her parents' neighbours, who now have notice that the council are going to come destroy their extension and give then a bill totalling about £60,000 including fines.
In that case we could lean on the council planning dept, but you have no such body to help (nobody votes for the HSE). You've also broken rules yourselves but are currently more wronged than wrong, so if you're obdurate they'll shut up.

 

[doitall]

Your parents never had any right to discharge their flue over the neighbours land.

And they're correct channels to get it moved

The neighbour has every right to do anything they like on their land like building a shed.

Wrong Tony, they have broken the Law and put lives at risk.

Your parents have no argument. Tony

So if I cut the brake pipes on their car, they have no argument

 

[Slugbabydotcom]

Heres my thoughts about it.

You might set a legal precedent with this one but its a straw to grasp at.
If your flue gases have been going on to their property for 20 years or more from that position, they may have established a right of way. That is so long as you can prove they did it without Vi, Clam or Precario.

Only other thing I can think of is if there was any entry in or with the deeds to your property signed by a previous owner giving your parents the right to maintain a flue there. Would it not be cheaper to come to an arrangement where this could be done? If someone gave me £1000 for the right to do this I would be snapping their hand off and sign the dotted line. That would have been cheaper than getting a new boiler fitted!

Much though I would love someone to set a legal precedent about this sort of issue I realise that doing so is an expensive venture and I think you should now consider liberating the bee from your bonnet. Your parents have heating now and would be happier if they just put this behind them as a bad experience.

Put yourself in the position of your neighbours who have to put up with your flue gases coming on to their property. What do they get out of your [until recently] free use of their land?

PS
If someone was telling me I broke the law by working on a flue illegally then I would consider an offer much smaller remuneration for allowing a flue to eject onto my property so long as they vowed to take no further action against me. You do have photographic evidence

 

[D_Hailsham]

My parents had a boiler fitted which discharged through a flue sited in their wall. Boiler was in situ approx 5 years.
Their neighbour decided to build a shed and attach this construction to my parent's wall. The shed completely enclosed the flue. Net result - the boiler had to be disconnected and my parents eventually had a replacement boiler fitted in a different location.

The facts, as I read it are these:

• The external face of the wall forms the boundary between the two properties.
  The old boiler discharged over the neighbours land; but the neighbour did not object.
  The neighbour built a shed attached to your wall and rerouted the flue, which still discharged over their land.
  As a result your boiler was declared unsafe and you had to have a new boiler fitted in a different position

Presumably, if the shed had not been built, the boiler would not have been condemned and your parents would have had no need to buy a new boiler. If this is the case, you may have grounds to sue the neighbours for the cost of the new boiler.

The rules concerning sheds are confusing so it might be worthwhile contacting the local council and finding out if the neighbours required Planning Permission and Building Regulations Consent for their shed.

If the shed required permission, the Council can order its removal.

... it has come to light that the neighbours actually modified the boiler flue - without discussing this with my parents, or obtaining any kind of permission for this work. They then tried to charge my parents for the work! ... I have been unable to obtain any legal advice as to whether it is acceptable that someone can simply modify a flue without asking the owner first.

The general rule is that you cannot make alterations to someone else's property without their permission. There are exceptions; the one which is nearest to your case is overhanging trees. A person is legally entitled to chop off the part of a branch of a neighbour's tree which over hangs their land. But they are required to return the cut off bits to their neighbour!

I wouldn't bother going down the safety route; there are more important things at stake.[/list]

 

[doitall]

Agreed the flue was over the neighbours land, but they may have had an agreement to put it there, certainly not unheard of.

If however the neighbour wished it to be removed, then they should have gone through the proper channels, even the Courts if necessary.

All this is irrelevant as far as I can see.

The issue is the neighbour Illegally modified the flue, at their cost, which they are now trying to recover.

I would talk to the neighbour and if they didn't drop the claim, I would consider, taking civil action for putting lives at risk

 

[GasMan1965]

Agreed the flue was over the neighbours land, but they may have had an agreement to put it there, certainly not unheard of.

If however the neighbour wished it to be removed, then they should have gone through the proper channels, even the Courts if necessary.

All this is irrelevant as far as I can see.

The issue is the neighbour Illegally modified the flue, at their cost, which they are now trying to recover.

I would talk to the neighbour and if they didn't drop the claim, I would consider, taking civil action for putting lives at risk

Spot on

 

[doitall]

Recklessly modifying and Gas appliance, would do the trick.

If memory serves me right, wasn't there a builder that got done last year for doing this very thing.

 

[DeeDee08]

If however the neighbour wished it to be removed, then they should have gone through the proper channels, even the Courts if necessary.

The owner of the neighbouring property doesn't actually live there and has never complained about the flue prior to building his shed... The flue was at the very end of their garden and (trespass issues aside) did not protrude excessively or disrupt anyone's life in any obvious way.

The issue is the neighbour Illegally modified the flue, at their cost, which they are now trying to recover.
I would talk to the neighbour and if they didn't drop the claim, I would consider, taking civil action for putting lives at risk

Unfortunately, the owner of the property will not engage in any kind of discussion and is currently hiding in Cyprus playing the injured party and letting his brother deal with everything. I think that putting lives at risk is the the issue and I will pursue it further.

This forum has been incredibly helpful - I'm so grateful for all the comments and input.

 

[DeeDee08]

Recklessly modifying and Gas appliance, would do the trick.

If memory serves me right, wasn't there a builder that got done last year for doing this very thing.

If you know any details of the case it would be useful to quote those to our solicitors who seem unable to deal with the most basic issues without a great deal of hand holding.

 

[GasMan1965]

Yeah I read that 1 .... as far as Im concerned there are hgundreds of thousands of flues in boundary walls,,, is every body saying the neighbours have the right to do what they like with these flues ??

I would be on the phone to whoever I could think of , CORGI, HSE Building Control etc till I got a satisfactory conclusion to the matter,,,
FFS guys THEY MODIFIED A FLUE TO A BOILER
If we did such a thing as RGI's our back sides wouldnt touch the floor as we would be for the high jump !!