GAS mdpe service pipe underground. One for the experts.

[slpj]

Hi, could one or more experts in this field please answer this? .

The gas main where I live, which is currently under the pavement, is being replaced/upgraded with a new main run under the road. Consequently, all the houses supplied from the existing main are being reconnected to the new main. The gas service pipes to ALL the houses, were at some time in the past replaced with yellow mdpe, which was pulled through the old steel pipework. Along with the new road gas main, we were told, that ALL the existing service pipes would have to be replaced again, even though they were already in yellow mdpe.

The work has progressed, and indeed on some houses, the existing yellow mdpe service pipes were pulled out completely, and a new length of mdpe pulled in. But on some it has been left in place going to the house, and joined to a new length going to the new gas main in the road.

Most of the houses (detached and semi) have an integral garage, and in 99% of those, the gas meter is in the garage. In most, the meter sits at about 5' off the floor and is fed with steel riser. So presumabley the yellow mdpe is connected to the steel pipe, below the concrete in the garage floor.

I have been trying to get a clear answer to exactly what criteria is used to decide if the existing yellow mdpe is to be replaced. I've been given various answers by the people digging the road and replacing the main, and running the new service pipes. But not a clear reason about why some service pipes are replace, and why some aren't. A new team has just started, and they seem to favour not pulling the existing service pipe out, but are happy to dig up a section of the drives and run a short length to the house.

In my house specifically.
The gas meter is 5'5'' off the concrete floor in my garage. It is fed with a yellow plastic sleeved steel riser, at the bottom of which, I'm told is some kind of "trans" ?? coupling/collar, that connects to the yellow mdpe below the concrete. The steel pipe is in very good condition with no sign of rusting or any gas leak when tested.

My next door neighbour's house is exactly the same, or was until 2 days ago. He was told that the service pipe had to be replaced. They were going to dig a hole in his garage floor to do this. They actually started to dig the concrete, but then having shattered the floor in a small area, changed their minds, and said they had to dig up drive instead, just in front of the entrance to the garage. They then cut the existing mdpe short, put an elbow on it, and ran a new length to, up, and through the external wall to the garage. They then ran a length of steel pipe up inside the garage, and copper pipe to the gas meter which they moved from it's existing position.

In my garage, I've been told several times that all they are going to do is replace the existing mdpe service pipe, to the gas meter in the existing position. But now they are being vague about exactly what they are going to do. I cant get a clear answer about why the existing service pipe has to be replaced or altered.

I don't want my drive dug up, I don't want an external pipe, and I don't want my meter moved, unless there is a specific regulation that says there is something wrong with my existing installation.

It's estimated that the existing underground yellow mdpe service pipes, have been in for around 25/26 or so years. Does is degrade in that time?

Can someone with the expert knowlege, please tell me exactly what connections to the mdpe service pipe, are allowed in an integral domestic garage? And if not, please point me to the correct written regulation/text, that describe the allowed connections?

Many thanks. ( sorry for the long post )

 

[Boilerman2]

Nothing to discuss! the pipe is the property of the Gas Transporter therefore the decision as to replace or re-use is theirs and theirs alone perhaps after inspection they feel that some of the pipes need to be replaced perhaps due to the proximity of the new main

 

[slpj]

Hi boilerman.

The decision is being made by the chaps doing the work (digging the holes and such), as an when they do each house. Every now and then a supervisor comes by and explains things to them. But he doesn't inspect each house.

All the service pipes were in the same position under the pavement, and the same distance to the new main in the road. The distance from the pavement to the entrances to the houses are also the same give or take a few feet. the houses are essentially all the same, all built in the 50's as one estate on an old farm.

I don't mind at all if they replace or leave the existing service pipe. I just don't want my drive dug up or meter moved unless it is absolutely neccessary. I'm trying to find out what would make it absolutely neccessary. I haven't requested this, it's being imposed, and I don't want the disruption if I don't have to have it.

Do you know where I can find a description of exactly how the gas service pipe can or is supposed to enter the premises, and exactly how it is to be connected to the meter, via the emergency cut off valve?

Obviously the mdpe service pipe can be joined underground, but what are the rules about where it can be joined? What are the rules about it being joind in the premises as opposed to being joined under the pavement or drive for example?

What are the rules for mdpe above ground in the premises/garage? I assume that being plastic it would have to be protected for example. The blokes doing the work, either don't know or won't tell me.


This stuff must be written down somewhere. All the decsions must be based on the appropriate regulation, no matter what the gas main owner decides.

 

[Dan Robinson]

It is but in expensive copyrighted books.


Could be worse - you could be paying for it directly.


As it is we are all paying for it as part of our gas bills.

 

[slpj]

That's why I asked if an expert in this field could answer. Because they would have access to the regulations.

 

[sooey]

The obvious thing to do would be to insist on speaking to this supervisor before allowing them to work on your house, and put your questions to him.

 

[Hugh Jaleak]

I'm pretty sure National Grid wont do anything that costs them money unless it is absolutely essential. Mains replacement is usually because the current main is either costing them a fortune in repeated leaks, or has been identified as likely to cost them a fortune in the near future!

I have been trying (without success) to persuade them to replace my service pipe. It's still the original steel pipe, runs through the underfloor to the understairs cupboard and meter, and in NG's own words, their side of the meter 'dates from town gas days'! But, until it starts leaking, they wont touch it.....

I agree with Sooey, ask the supervisor on the job, he ultimately is running the show and will have the spec for the job, and will also be liaising with NG's representative. Between them they will be deciding on any alterations that need to be made to the agreed schedule of works. Unless there is anyone on here who works for NG, I doubt you'll get a definite answer, NG are pretty much a law unto themselves most of the time.....

 

[JBR]

Luxury! You lucky, lucky b******! Eeh, when I were a lad...

No, seriously, our local area has just had similar improvements and, to be fair, the gas men have been very accommodating.

I had quite a shock at first, though, when they informed me that the old iron pipe which passes under a solid floor to the gas meter in a back room extension (originally would have been on the outside wall of the house) would have to be replaced. Their intention was to feed the new pipe through the front wall and, once inside, it would have to travel up the inside of the wall into the loft, across the room, and then down the wall at the back of the room to the meter!

Fortunately, my wife was out at the time or she would have immediately killed the engineer without a second thought.

As it happens, I had the idea that the meter could be re-sited in front of the garage at the other end of the house and they agreed to lay a new pipe under the drive and forget about the old one (which is still there underground, but disconnected). They did have to dig up the drive just adjacent to the new meter cupboard, but drove the new pipe under the drive using a mole-like thing. Fortunately, existing gas pipes in the house lead to the boiler, which is in the garage, and they were willing to connect a pipe from the new meter to those.

Could have been a lot worse, though.

 

[Richardthe3rd]

Nothing to discuss! the pipe is the property of the Gas Transporter therefore the decision as to replace or re-use is theirs and theirs alone perhaps after inspection they feel that some of the pipes need to be replaced perhaps due to the proximity of the new main

I agree it's their pipe & their responsibility, so nothing to concern you with.
Leave the poor guys alone to get on with the job!!

 

[slpj]

"Nothing to discuss! the pipe is the property of the Gas Transporter therefore the decision as to replace or re-use is theirs and theirs alone perhaps after inspection they feel that some of the pipes need to be replaced perhaps due to the proximity of the new main icon_wink.gif "
AND.
"I agree it's their pipe & their responsibility, so nothing to concern you with.
Leave the poor guys alone to get on with the job!! "

Yes. Thanks for those useless comments. With respect, they're just about as helpful as stale rice pudding. As for there being nothing to discuss. I wasn't after a discussion, I was asking a question or two, and hoping for the answers from the experts.

Of course it concerns me, it's my house and my drive they might dig up.

I agree sooey, I'd love to ask the supervisor, but he hasn't shown up, and the blokes in the hole say he isn't due to come this week. Amazing. They did give me his mobile, but he hasn't responded. So tomorrow, I'm going to call the Gas company responsible and ask them to send an engineeer, or put an answer in writing to me. Else they can't come onto my property.

Frankly I'm amazed that nobody here knows the answer to my questions. Or maybe if the people who do know are actually aware of this thread, they simply don't want to tell me.

I had thought this would be the best place to ask, given that there is a dedicated private forum for registered gas engineers on here too. But I suppose I'll have to find the answers via google search or the like.

Thanks anyway.

 

[Phill Peck]

" Else they can't come onto my property.

Can I have your address I'd like to be there when you tell them that

As said its their pipe so they do what they see fit.

You have obviously made contact with the guys in the road. Unless their supervisor turns up and tells them otherwise they will do what suits at the time.
Re start digging up somewhere realise its hard and find another way like with your neighbour.

My advise just be nice to guys in the road and tel them how you would rather it was done. Ie not moving your meter etc
Tea/coffee goes a long way with tradesmen

 

[Boilerman2]

You might consider my responses "Useless" - However they are based on FACT!

 

[Dan Robinson]

It is quite fun watching people trying to play Billy Bill balls with NG guys who want entry into a property.

Haven't had the pleasure for a while though .

 

[slpj]

"As said its their pipe so they do what they see fit."
--- No they can't. They are governed by legislation in the form of regulation. And whilst they can do what they like within those regulations on public property, they can't simply "do what they like" on private property.

Also, gas companies have no right to enter a property unless it's an emergency. Other than that they need a warrant, -- for example to disconnect due to unpaid bills etc.

I want to know which regulations govern the way the service pipe is connected from the gas main to a domestic property, -- what is and what is not allowed, in terms of types of connections, joints underground, bends etc. They are simple enough questions. Had someone asked me a question(s) to which I knew the answer(s) or at least where to look for it/them, I would be pleased to give it. I wouldn't be telling that someone , to paraphrase some responders, -- "it's not your business to know, stop interferring"

Obviously none of the responders so far, know the answers. But whilst some have offered friendly advice and have at least tried to be helpful, others it seems, simply have so say something, for the sake of it.

I'll remember in future not to ask for advice here.

 

[Dextraneous]

I'll remember in future not to ask for advice here.

Bit odd really. You've been given advice and obviously didn't like some of it so feel free to do what most people do and cherry pick

For what it's worth, to my knowledge there is no law that states that they actually have to run a supply to your house at all. So, if you refuse them right of access, you may well find yourself without gas and a subsequent large bill to have the supply connected at a later date.

Given that these fitters do this for a living, one presumes that they are quite adept at making good afterwards. So, why do you not want them to carry out the work of digging up your drive?