Gas vs oil worries

[Roger465]

Here in NI, an awful lot of houses are still heated by oil boilers, as we’re a bit more spread out than eg England, so gas companies haven't felt it economic to put gas in, I suppose.

Anyway, in our estate, after 30 years, now they have, and will connect for free – so I’m trying to decide. I’m perfectly happy with what I've got – I had to get a new boiler 7 years ago when I moved in, so it still seems to be in good nick.

But here are the things I don’t like – maybe not the obvious ones.

1. Big old plastic oil tank, non-bunded as far as I can tell, and probably 20-30 years old, though I don’t actually know. Are they prone to sudden leakage? If there was any likelihood of my having to replace it, given the cost, I’d get gas instead, for sure.

2. Large plastic cold water tank in the attic – I’ve always felt a little insecure having it up there, but I suppose there’s no reason for it to fail and deluge me in my bed… gulp…

Are my worries at all reasonable?

Then on the other hand two things worry me about getting gas in. As above, the loft cold water tank would apparently go, so all the stuff currently on low pressure would be connected to the mains (basins in bathroom and en suite, bath, two electric showers etc) – what’s the chances of 30-year-old plumbing popping leaks under the increased pressure?

Second one is a bit odd. The boiler is in the rear left hand corner of the garage, and the gas pipe would come in from the street at the front, via a mole. Trouble is, I have two taps on the outside of the garage, at the rear right hand corner, so there will be water pipes under the garage floor, going from front left (where the kitchen and cold riser are) to rear right. No idea what depth they might be. Can the guy with the mole tell if he’s hit a pipe, or about to?

Some of the above is probably length of a piece of string stuff, but some of you will have done things like this, so I’m just after any advice or opinions, really…

Thanks

 

[flameport]

Oil tanks can fail and leak - whether yours is likely to do that depends on it's condition.

The tank in the roof is unrelated - presumably they are trying to sell you a gas combination boiler which heats water on demand, and therefore there is no hot water cylinder or cold storage in the loft. That also means mains pressure hot water.
However oil combination boilers are available and would achieve the same thing, and gas boilers which heat a hot water cylinder also exist. The fuel used is unrelated to how the hot water is provided.

A 7 year old boiler should have many years of life left in it.

The reasons for installing new gas supplies is also questionable, given the move away from burning fuels and towards electric heating of various types including heatpumps.

 

[Roger465]

Thanks – yeah, sorry, when I read back what I’ve written I always think I could have phrased it better. So the oil tank looks OK to me, but I’m not sure how I’d know… no obvious damage, or anything that looks like a crack might be developing or anything – but I don’t know exactly how they go about failing.

And yes, I know what you say about combi boilers etc. Talking to others who’ve had the conversion done, standard practice here seems to be to fit a combi, and it sounds like the best plan – get rid of the tanks, and hot water on demand rather than having it at different times of the day etc.

I had an oil combi in a previous house – that, and a couple of people I know who have them here, put me off. I think the problem is that the boilers tend to be too far from the hot water taps, so it takes forever (and a lot of noise) to produce hot water.

And heat pumps… yes, lovely on paper, but we don’t get a grant here in NI (there’s a standard phrase appended to UK-wide telly ads for ANYTHING, saying “excludes NI”), so not an option I’m afraid.

 

[Harry Bloomfield]

I had an oil combi in a previous house – that, and a couple of people I know who have them here, put me off. I think the problem is that the boilers tend to be too far from the hot water taps, so it takes forever (and a lot of noise) to produce hot water.

A gas combi, is exactly the same - wait for the hot water to appear, water wasted until it does, then it will not run. as fast as it does at present. The way around it is a pressurised, stored water system, of an open vented system with a tank in the loft - what you have at present.

I wouldn't be too concerned, about a plastic loft tank, I would be more concerned about a metal tank - and I have one of those

 

[Roger465]

A gas combi, is exactly the same - wait for the hot water to appear, water wasted until it does, then it will not run. as fast as it does at present. The way around it is a pressurised, stored water system, of an open vented system with a tank in the loft - what you have at present.

I wouldn't be too concerned, about a plastic loft tank, I would be more concerned about a metal tank - and I have one of those

Right, of course - I just thought for some reason gas ones heated the water faster (more efficient or something).

I suppose maybe it depends on distance between boiler and kitchen sink too - girlfriend's apartment is on the 2nd floor, and all the oil combi boilers are in a little row, way down outside, and it takes forever to get hot water. I suppose if I get a man in to quote for it, I could discuss the options - I forgot about the pressurised, stored water system - had that in my last house (new build)...

 

[ChrisJP]

I struggle to understand the modern preference for combi boilers with hot water heated only on demand. As has been said, you often have to wait an age for the hot water to reach the tap and, if more than one person in the house is demanding hot water at the same time, the hot water will sometimes go lukewarm.
What's more, while the boiler is providing HW, the central heating gets no hot water at all.
The old fashioned open vented system, with two header tanks in the loft (one small one for the CH & HW circuits, one larger one for domestic cold water) plus a HW cylinder that is normally in a cupboard in the house which acts as a clothes and bed linen airing cupboard, seems to me to be much better.
You are not without HW in the case of a gas outage, and have a store of cold water if there's a water outage.

 

[Roger465]

See, that's why I come here - to get educated. Now I understand the options better, I can have a more informed discussion with the installer, when that time comes...

Are there any real oil tank experts out there? Is there any way at all of knowing if it's deteriorating?

Thanks again everybody

Yes, I know it looks like a Dalek...

 

[Exedon]

Life span of plastic oil tanks depends on several things.
Quality of tank to start with? is it well installed on a solid level base? How much is it exposed to sunlight ?
The earlier tanks were susceptible to U V damage that can cause cracks.
Signs of it loosing colour or even going white mean UV damage.

 

[Roger465]

Life span of plastic oil tanks depends on several things.
Quality of tank to start with? is it well installed on a solid level base? How much is it exposed to sunlight ?
The earlier tanks were susceptible to U V damage that can cause cracks.
Signs of it loosing colour or even going white mean UV damage.

Quality - who knows? Definitely on a proper base made of 2 x 2 concrete slabs. You can see it's bleached a bit at the top, but not further down - it only gets a bit of sun in the morning I reckon...

 

[Davidt50]

Having just had a boiler problem, so relying on fan heaters for four days to keep warm, I blessed having a hot water tank with an immersion heater in it as I at least had hot water to shower etc.
I've always associated combi boilers with small flats not large houses but I could be wrong.

 

[Harry Bloomfield]

I've always associated combi boilers with small flats not large houses but I could be wrong.

Yep, great where space is at an absolute premium, and the home is irregularly occupied. For everyone else, you cannot beat having 120/150L of hot water, instantly available, at maximum supply rate.

 

[flameport]

And heat pumps… yes, lovely on paper, but we don’t get a grant here in NI

Such things may be available in the future, and even if not heat pumps will not be expensive for ever, as production volumes and installers will increase over time.

Installing gas however is a very permanent and long term affair, and particularly with a combi will tie you in to that system for ever, unless you want to subsequently pay even more to install an entire new system in the future.

 

[Roger465]

Having just had a boiler problem, so relying on fan heaters for four days to keep warm, I blessed having a hot water tank with an immersion heater in it as I at least had hot water to shower etc.
I've always associated combi boilers with small flats not large houses but I could be wrong.

I bought this bungalow to retire. It was in a real state, but what else did I have to do... but very soon two things happened: (1) the boiler (believed original since 1994 or so, and rarely if ever serviced) disintegrated into a pile of rust in the corner of the garage; (2) we had the worst winter here for many years (2017 - don't know what it was like back in England, but Gloucestershire where I lived for 25 years was a lot warmer!).

I had to wait a couple of weeks for the new boiler to be fitted - I was sitting here with a fan heater, wearing my old ski suit. Immersion heater and electric shower present, thankfully

Yep, great where space is at an absolute premium, and the home is irregularly occupied. For everyone else, you cannot beat having 120/150L of hot water, instantly available, at maximum supply rate.

I'm sure you're right Harry - I had totally forgotten that's what I had back in England.

Such things may be available in the future, and even if not heat pumps will not be expensive for ever, as production volumes and installers will increase over time.

Installing gas however is a very permanent and long term affair, and particularly with a combi will tie you in to that system for ever, unless you want to subsequently pay even more to install an entire new system in the future.

That's good advice, thanks!

Having had a really good look at everything here - especially the oil tank - I think I'm going to stick with oil for now. Who knows what the future holds, eh...

 

[oilhead]

If installing the gas supply is free, then take it. If it means you need to pay a pernicious standing charge, then don't. With the current lack of an objective energy policy , like the song, the answer is Blowing in the Wind.